Why I Am No Longer An Atheist

[stevil]

At the same time, homo sapiens is fundamentally a religious animal.  Every culture has a folk religion attached to it.

Most people on the planet do not believe in the Christian god. From an evolutionary perspective does this mean the Christian god does not exist?
 

People of faith show several health benefits too

Rather than becoming a theist because of belief in a god, you choose to believe in god because you think there are health benefits?

 
So, the Church says that God created us in his image to love him.  Evolutionary psychology offers a convoluted speculative explanation.  Both are untestable.  If you apply Ockham's Razor (the most parsimonious explanation is true), the Church wins.

The Catholic Church's theory of god comes from 2,000 years of interpreting and reinterpreting some very old books (which hundreds of other churches interpret differently), the old testament of which has many stories of war, rape, incest, murder and much of this coming from the supposedly all loving, incapable of evil god. Concepts of free will, morality, good, evil, original sin, eucharist, judgement, heaven, hell, ... not convoluted at all :-)
 

 
 

 
Edited December 12, 2012 by stevil

[Papist]

Exactly why people reject theism and religions and find varying degrees of agnosticism, or atheism are more likely, resonable, or truthfull.

 

That's the beauty of not believing in God. Any evidence presented, all you have to say is, meh that's not proof.

[Fidei Defensor]

Most people on the planet do not believe in the Christian god. From an evolutionary perspective does this mean the Christian god does not exist?
 Rather than becoming a theist because of belief in a god, you choose to believe in god because you think there are health benefits?The Catholic Church's theory of god comes from 2,000 years of interpreting and reinterpreting some very old books (which hundreds of other churches interpret differently), the old testament of which has many stories of war, rape, incest, murder and much of this coming from the supposedly all loving, incapable of evil god. Concepts of free will, morality, good, evil, original sin, eucharist, judgement, heaven, hell, ... not convoluted at all :-)
 

 
 

 

 

On the flip-side, the atheistic world view is a theory based on the very same reasoning every person has, arriving at different conclusions based on different interpretations of the world.  

 

The point is, I don't think we're ever going to know. We choose to believe what we want, but neither side has any right to criticized the reasoning process, especially atheists — considering they don't believe there is an objective truth, how can they say they are right?

 

This is why I don't know what I believe anymore.

[Nihil Obstat]

Are you familiar with Kierkegaard's views on faith?

[Fidei Defensor]

Are you familiar with Kierkegaard's views on faith?

 

I am not.

[Anomaly]

That's the beauty of not believing in God. Any evidence presented, all you have to say is, meh that's not proof.

 

We are talking about the choice in believing in the existence of a God.  Atheists and agnostics have to deal with the version of God that is explained and justified to them by Theists. 

 

Catholics say He is involved and active in our lives and loves us all unconditionally.  Where is he when a child was swept from a mother's arms in the Japan tsunami?  Where is he when a child molestation victim screams for oblivion from their torture?  Where is he during the countless agonies innocent humans suffer through no fault of their own and beg for peace or release?  Theists rely on an unprovable and completely undetectable fantasy of another plane of existence where everything is made right for the "believers".  Theists believe those who chose to not believe in this mythical construct called God will be tortured for infinity.   Hasan made a joke days ago saying something like "Love and worship me or suffer torture for eternity."

 

I look around and see many loving good people who are avowed aethiests or agnostics, rejecting religion and their version of a God, but expending their human energies to comfort a greiving mother, swim for a lost child, fight for a victim.  They 've chosen to do good in this reality as opposed to waiting for God's revenge for the injustices they've suffered in another "reality".  Just as clearly, I see Catholics do as much to feed, clothe, and comfort the unfortunate because they think they're doing God's work. 

 

We all can produce stories of Christians killing in God's name or His cause.  We all can produce stories of atheists inflicting murder and mayhem by right of their ability to do so.  It's doesn't matter to me whether you have an imaginary buddy, or just your inner whims that directs your actions. 

 

So what's the difference in the effect, other than the motivation?

[Nihil Obstat]

I am not.

I do not have the requisite experience to comment in any detail, but essentially what he was getting at is that faith, by its very nature, requires that leap that goes beyond reason. That, in fact, if you had all the perfect reasons, you would not really have faith at all.

If you get a chance, Fear and Trembling deals with that concept quite a bit. It is fairly short, and quite accessible.

I think this link has the full book. Anyway, it should be public domain, so I do not think it is too difficult to track down.

 

Obviously Kierkegaard was not Catholic, and was rather against the 'institutional Church', so I am not going to agree with everything he says, but he definitely deserves some careful study.

[Papist]

We are talking about the choice in believing in the existence of a God.  Atheists and agnostics have to deal with the version of God that is explained and justified to them by Theists. 

 

Catholics say He is involved and active in our lives and loves us all unconditionally.  Where is he when a child was swept from a mother's arms in the Japan tsunami?  Where is he when a child molestation victim screams for oblivion from their torture?  Where is he during the countless agonies innocent humans suffer through no fault of their own and beg for peace or release?  Theists rely on an unprovable and completely undetectable fantasy of another plane of existence where everything is made right for the "believers".  Theists believe those who chose to not believe in this mythical construct called God will be tortured for infinity.   Hasan made a joke days ago saying something like "Love and worship me or suffer torture for eternity."

 

I look around and see many loving good people who are avowed aethiests or agnostics, rejecting religion and their version of a God, but expending their human energies to comfort a greiving mother, swim for a lost child, fight for a victim.  They 've chosen to do good in this reality as opposed to waiting for God's revenge for the injustices they've suffered in another "reality".  Just as clearly, I see Catholics do as much to feed, clothe, and comfort the unfortunate because they think they're doing God's work. 

 

We all can produce stories of Christians killing in God's name or His cause.  We all can produce stories of atheists inflicting murder and mayhem by right of their ability to do so.  It's doesn't matter to me whether you have an imaginary buddy, or just your inner whims that directs your actions. 

 

So what's the difference in the effect, other than the motivation?

 

In a nutshell, you are saying it does not matter what you believe or not believe, just as long you do good, and avoid doing evil.  Am I understanding you?

 

Also, I never understood the whole, innocent person suffers = God does not exist

Edited December 12, 2012 by Papist

[Fidei Defensor]

We are talking about the choice in believing in the existence of a God.  Atheists and agnostics have to deal with the version of God that is explained and justified to them by Theists. 

 

Catholics say He is involved and active in our lives and loves us all unconditionally.  Where is he when a child was swept from a mother's arms in the Japan tsunami?  Where is he when a child molestation victim screams for oblivion from their torture?  Where is he during the countless agonies innocent humans suffer through no fault of their own and beg for peace or release?  Theists rely on an unprovable and completely undetectable fantasy of another plane of existence where everything is made right for the "believers".  Theists believe those who chose to not believe in this mythical construct called God will be tortured for infinity.   Hasan made a joke days ago saying something like "Love and worship me or suffer torture for eternity."

 

I look around and see many loving good people who are avowed aethiests or agnostics, rejecting religion and their version of a God, but expending their human energies to comfort a greiving mother, swim for a lost child, fight for a victim.  They 've chosen to do good in this reality as opposed to waiting for God's revenge for the injustices they've suffered in another "reality".  Just as clearly, I see Catholics do as much to feed, clothe, and comfort the unfortunate because they think they're doing God's work. 

 

We all can produce stories of Christians killing in God's name or His cause.  We all can produce stories of atheists inflicting murder and mayhem by right of their ability to do so.  It's doesn't matter to me whether you have an imaginary buddy, or just your inner whims that directs your actions. 

 

So what's the difference in the effect, other than the motivation?

 

The problem is that no one really knows how God works. For all we know, these loving and caring individuals are the way God comforts the afflicted. Who knows.

[Anomaly]

In a nutshell, you are saying it does not matter what you believe or not believe, just as long you do good, and avoid doing evil.  Am I understanding you?

 

Also, I never understood the whole, innocent person suffers = God does not exist

 

A clumsy nutshell; but sufficient for succinctness.

 

Innocents’ suffering is an obstacle in reality to the version of a Just God proffered by Christianity.

[Nihil Obstat]

A clumsy nutshell; but sufficient for succinctness.

 

Innocents’ suffering is an obstacle in reality to the version of a Just God proffered by Christianity.

 

Several philosophers who are, in all likelihood, rather smarter than you, disagree. :P

[stevil]

On the flip-side, the atheistic world view is a theory based on the very same reasoning every person has, arriving at different conclusions based on different interpretations of the world.

The point is, I don't think we're ever going to know. We choose to believe what we want, but neither side has any right to criticized the reasoning process, especially atheists — considering they don't believe there is an objective truth, how can they say they are right?

This is why I don't know what I believe anymore.

A weak atheist is a person who hasn’t made a belief choice, thus is lacking a belief in god/s or against god’s.

A person whom recognises that there are plausible alternatives and hasn’t chosen to shut the door on any of them.

[Anomaly]

Several philosophers who are, in all likelihood, rather smarter than you, disagree. :P

 

So?  I'm sure there are several philosophers (in addition to Helvetius, Marx, and Kant) who are smarter than I am that would tend to agree with me. 

 

Edit to add: 

Theist philosophers default to the idea of justice in another realm of existence.  They don't resolve the question of why does an omniscient and omnipotent God withhold mercy and justice for the innocent in this reality.  They kick the can to an imaginary after life.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Anomaly

[stevil]

Several philosophers who are, in all likelihood, rather smarter than you, disagree. :P

That comment wan't worthy of your own intellect Nihil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

[Anomaly]

That comment wan't worthy of your own intellect Nihil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

It was worthy of his ego.