What Constitutes Fair And Non-discriminatory Pay?

[zabbazooey]

Well from my perspective I have been supporting myself during my degree. Going on year 6. You bet after I FINALLY graduate that I expect a higher pay. I went through so much trouble and hard times to stay in school. Had to take a break a few years ago due to money.

College grads deserve more. And mom and dad haven't hardly helped at all. I think my mom paid for a semester of books when I was 18 and that's about it.

[WillT]

I don't think a system like this would open a door for inequality because that door has been opened already. Many companies will pay someone with a degree more than someone else with the same job who doesn't have one. It's no different than basing that pay difference on family size, etc.

[Anomaly]

Well from my perspective I have been supporting myself during my degree. Going on year 6. You bet after I FINALLY graduate that I expect a higher pay. I went through so much trouble and hard times to stay in school. Had to take a break a few years ago due to money.

College grads deserve more. And mom and dad haven't hardly helped at all. I think my mom paid for a semester of books when I was 18 and that's about it.

 

Good for you.  How does your degree contribute to the company business?  Why is the financial burden of your choices partly the responsibility of fellow employees who don't have a degree because they didn't have  the opportunity to go to school for various reasons?  Is your degree equally valuable to the business as a degree in Finance, Marketing, Bio-Chemestry, Engineering, or pre-Modern Art?

[homeschoolmom]

Well from my perspective I have been supporting myself during my degree. Going on year 6. You bet after I FINALLY graduate that I expect a higher pay. I went through so much trouble and hard times to stay in school. Had to take a break a few years ago due to money.

College grads deserve more. And mom and dad haven't hardly helped at all. I think my mom paid for a semester of books when I was 18 and that's about it.

I agree with Anomoly. A college degree should only be considered when figuring compensation if having it adds to the employee's contribution to the company.

[zabbazooey]

I dunno I work as a phone rep for a mortgage company and a guy with a music degree was paid more and eventually was chosen over me for a promotion because of his degree. It's not about the financial burden, it's about the effort, time, and concentration that goes into getting a degree.

Also I should add that I'm not majoring in African dance, basket weaving, or philosophy. Heck, I want to major in psychology but it's not a happenin' field right now. I chose my major(s) because they pertain to things I enjoy and excel at but not in a dead end or non-existent field. I was an education major, due to the economy I reevaluated my situation and changed my major to speech-language pathology.

[homeschoolmom]

Ok so equal work equal pay. But if someone has more work experience or a degree they should get paid more. If not we are creating a system close to communism which discourages those sorts of things and pays everyone the exact same. Why go to school if you'll get paid the same as a HS grad?

The goal is to not get a job that can be filled by a HS grad, isn't it?

 

There's no way an employer should pay someone a higher rate simply because he or she has a family, and not because he or she works hard.  Like others have said, there's no way for an employer to know everyone's situation.  Arbitrarily deciding who needs more money based on factors other than job performance opens the door to all kinds of unfair employment practices. 

 

 If an employer needs someone to cover an extra shift, I don't see a problem in first offering it to the employees who have expressed interest in picking up extra time...for whatever reason.  My brother works at a shipping company, and when his boss asked for volunteers to be "on call" instead of scheduled one day a week, my brother took him up on the offer because he's a 19 year old kid and knows that some of his coworkers have families to support, and need all the help they can get.   

 

Employers have to compensate their workers fairly, but employees have to be advocates for themselves and work hard to earn the salary they need. 

The struggle with this whole conversation is that those who may need to pick up extra shifts (ie the family breadwinner) has less time in which to do that (because he's the dad, too). The single person tends to win out and appear to be more of a "team player" and often receives better promotions than the family man.

[Anomaly]

The struggle with this whole conversation is that those who may need to pick up extra shifts (ie the family breadwinner) has less time in which to do that (because he's the dad, too). The single person tends to win out and appear to be more of a "team player" and often receives better promotions than the family man.

In real life, it goes both way.

 

I've seen it work in the favor of the employee with the family more often than not.  They get preferential treatment for time off, more flexible schedule, first opportunity to pick up extra work.  They're often considered as more dependable, stable, and loyal employees because their obligations require a steady income.

 

The single and young person is often viewed as wanting time off for personal fun they want, instead of outside obligations.   Single people are often expected to work the extra shifts or put in extra time because they don't have family obligations that have a priority over business needs.  They aren't usually considered as responsible.

 

When people's opinions are based on general perceptions, there's  a lot of room for differeing opinion.  There is way too many variables to come up with workable black and white set of "fair" rules that determine pay according to personal family situations.  I don't want my employer to be all involved in evaluating my personal and home life.  My work life is at work.  Pay me according to the job I do.  I'll run my personal life and spend my wages as I (and my family) determine is best.  I don't want my employer paying more to a single mom with three kids just because she keeps getting pregnant with various baby daddies.  If I'm single and am putting in the time and effort to develop my skills and climb the corporate ladder since I don't have a family, I should be rewarded for my efforts.  It's not my employer's business to consider if the single person is single because they're an unpleasant alcholic that no one will marry, or someone who just hasn't met the right person, or someone who has had to take care of a sibling or family member and/or just isn't interested in raising a famiy (yet).

[homeschoolmom]

In real life, it goes both way.

 

I've seen it work in the favor of the employee with the family more often than not.  They get preferential treatment for time off, more flexible schedule, first opportunity to pick up extra work.  They're often considered as more dependable, stable, and loyal employees because their obligations require a steady income.

 

The single and young person is often viewed as wanting time off for personal fun they want, instead of outside obligations.   Single people are often expected to work the extra shifts or put in extra time because they don't have family obligations that have a priority over business needs.  They aren't usually considered as responsible.

 

When people's opinions are based on general perceptions, there's  a lot of room for differeing opinion.  There is way too many variables to come up with workable black and white set of "fair" rules that determine pay according to personal family situations.  I don't want my employer to be all involved in evaluating my personal and home life.  My work life is at work.  Pay me according to the job I do.  I'll run my personal life and spend my wages as I (and my family) determine is best.  I don't want my employer paying more to a single mom with three kids just because she keeps getting pregnant with various baby daddies.  If I'm single and am putting in the time and effort to develop my skills and climb the corporate ladder since I don't have a family, I should be rewarded for my efforts.  It's not my employer's business to consider if the single person is single because they're an unpleasant alcholic that no one will marry, or someone who just hasn't met the right person, or someone who has had to take care of a sibling or family member and/or just isn't interested in raising a famiy (yet).

 

haha... touche. ;) I, too, don't want people to decide my dh's pay based on our familial decisions. One look into our lives and they may decide that I'm not employed (but should be), so they could pay dh accordingly. It's really not their business.

[Era Might]

Well from my perspective I have been supporting myself during my degree. Going on year 6. You bet after I FINALLY graduate that I expect a higher pay. I went through so much trouble and hard times to stay in school. Had to take a break a few years ago due to money.

College grads deserve more. And mom and dad haven't hardly helped at all. I think my mom paid for a semester of books when I was 18 and that's about it.

 

The sales manager at my last job just had a high school diploma, yet he was a highly paid sales manager. He knew what he was doing, he was good at it, and he played a valuable role in the company. Me? I had a college degree, and I was in an entry level role, and he was my boss.

 

I've discovered pretty quick in life that what matters is what you can do, not what you say you can do, or what you have done, or what you might be able to do some day.

 

A college degree doesn't mean anything in the real world. Neither does talent or potential.

 

It's the great lie that our generation has been sold, that going to school makes you qualified for anything. It might make you a little smarter, it might give you a leg up, but it doesn't make you qualified for anything once you get dropped into the real world.

 

The thing you learn once you get out of school is how disposable you are. You can be dropped any day and the company would go on just fine without you. Every job is an opportunity to improve and get to a stage in your professional life where you are not disposable. A college degree doesn't make you indisposable.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Era Might

[zabbazooey]

LOL I've learned how disposable I am in my past jobs. Quit my job of 3 years, my boss had someone lined up that day before lunch to train in to my position. I long for a job where I matter.

 

I know that it doesn't work the way I want in the real world. But if someone has my qualifications and does equal work, and they have that special piece of paper, I feel they are warranted for higher pay. Even if it's 25c an hour more.

 

When I was a supervisor and stepped down to a regular employee (less stress) I took a pay cut but still made more than most employees because of my experience and education.

 

My mom worked very hard and made six figures without a degree. She eventually had to get one to remain competitive.

[Era Might]

I know that it doesn't work the way I want in the real world. But if someone has my qualifications and does equal work, and they have that special piece of paper, I feel they are warranted for higher pay. Even if it's 25c an hour more.

 

I think in reality you do generally get more. In many cases, you wouldn't even be considered for the job without a degree. And if you really are worth a little more, you can usually get it when you talk salary.

 

I mentioned my last job. I didn't make much, but it was about as little as I would accept as someone with a degree. When I left that company, they were offering people $2-$4 less an hour for my job. I wouldn't have ever accepted the job at that rate. It took me almost 2 years to get a $1 raise. So I left.

 

If you're worth what you think you are worth, then you will find it. I thought I was worth a lot more, and I was right. After I left, I found a job that gave me what I think I am worth (I didn't get it right away, I had to prove myself, but after a few months they gave me what I thought I was worth).

Edited December 3, 2012 by Era Might

[Anomaly]

I know that it doesn't work the way I want in the real world. But if someone has my qualifications and does equal work, and they have that special piece of paper, I feel they are warranted for higher pay. Even if it's 25c an hour more.

 

And as a business owner/manager with the authority to determine pay, you should be free to pay more, less, or the same based on having a degree or not.  It's your judgement call.

 

I've had that responsibilty for many years.  I understand the dynamics of a business being a 'For Profit Organization'.  The owners want to make money this year, and twenty years from now.  It's very rare that they are there to suck the company dry and make all they can immediately, and I've experienced that as well.

 

You have to consider that everybody working there is trying to feed, clothe, and provide for themselves and probably others.  They are all trading the bulk of their waking hours in return for the money to obtain these things.  You have to try to be fair to everyone.  Having degrees, or experience are only indicators of your potential and ability.  There's always exceptions to every rule or generalization when it comes to dealing with people.  Labor is a cost.  Profits are rarely obscene.  To give a fair price for the products you provide to customers, you have to have fair and reasonable costs and profits.  Labor is not an arbitrary and limitless cost.  The portion of cost for labor needs to be divided up fairly as reasonably possible and is based on a huge number of factors.  Trying to establish guidelines that don't equitably consider the laborer's contribution is clearly not sustainable for very long.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

I think people with degrees should be given the advantage, even if it's retail! They went through the extra trouble to get the degree vs. someone with just a HS diploma. That's something you earn and takes years. If someone is motivated enough to go beyond high school to pursue and obtain a degree, they should be given higher pay (this doesn't always happen, though).

The problem with this view, is that what makes a piece of paper more valuable??? I myself carry several professional certifications In Rock Cimbing, Ropes Course Facilitatn, Ropes Course Constructn and Inspection, EMT, not to mention several deployments in the Military as a Combat Medic. I have TAUGHT at National and international levels, written government reports on policy suggestions, including meeting with foriegn leaders and dignitaries all without a college degree. now my question is you could put me up anyway with most college degree bearing 30 year olds and my experience and knowledge is much greater. So why value the paper when it has no bearing on the work?

[zabbazooey]

Well it's not just the degree, but also the experience as well. My mom was a veteran and worked her way up the corporate ladder from call center rep to whatever it is she does now with no degree. Experience is extremely valuable. The issue on the whole is very complex and I don't know if we will ever has a system that is fair to everyone or at least most people.

[hermit]

I'm curious...I'm not well versed in the Bible but I've read just enough to know a little, somewhere it says,  I think it was Paul, and this will be put in the rough...Take all that you have and give it to the church, whatever it is and then take that and divide it amongst you according to your needs...

 

What would this type of society be called?...

 

I hate money, I think it always causes greed and seperation, and probably IS the root of all evil...Unfortunately it seems to be what society is based upon...