Family Visits, Parents Upset - Should This Determine The Monastery I C

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I see a couple of issues here and perhaps it would help your mother if they were addressed in a logical, practical way because right now her emotions are overwhelming her reason.

 

First, none of us can see the future. That's why Jesus says, 'Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.' Mt 6:34

 

The future that your mother worries about will probably never happen. Carmelite nuns aren't usually forced to leave their community to set up a new foundation or even to join an existing one. They are often asked if they would like to do do. But even if it does come about the way she imagines, her situation might not be the same as it is now either. None of us know the future. If she could try to focus on now and what convent would be best for you today, she could leave the rest in God's hands and trust that He knows her concerns and loves her as much as He loves you.

 

The other thing you personally need to think about it is your calling. The spirituality of the Carmelites is very different from the spirituality of the Benedictines and a person who is called for one way of life might find the other unbearable. If you enter a community where you do not necessarily feel called, then you might find yourself quite unable to persevere in religious life and then end up feeling as if you have failed.

 

Perhaps you could discuss the issue of spirituality and different charisms with your mother and explain why you feel particularly drawn to the Carmelite life. Or, you could do a live-in visit with a Benedictine community and see how you feel about their life and spirituality. I can't stress too much - they are not the same! Some people are naturally drawn to Benedictine life and others to Carmel, and it isn't as if religious communities are mix and match outfits.

 

And if you haven't discerned your own spirituality yet, maybe you do need to take a step back and do more visits before you proceed, and speak either with a spiritual director or the superiors of some communities to understand the differences. There are probably going to be a lot of obstacles (challenges) along the way, so deal with each one as it comes up by completely trusting God.

 

PS - Has your mother been involved in discernment with you? Maybe she should go with you on a visit and speak with the superior, get to know the community and also get some strength and support from them?

Edited November 29, 2012 by nunsense

[TIWW]

Eumeia, Not sure of your age or if you are currently living at home. I agree with the advice Nunsense has offered. If you are still dependent on your parents, hopefully they have been in on your vocational journey from the start. And if so, that will ease  some concerns they might have. Have you participated in any "Come and See" type of experiences yet with any community? These are very helpful in looking at the different aspects of living the life. If you do not already have a Spiritual Director or Parish Priest you can talk with, this might help with some of your questions about future religious life. Many, not all communities like to have people get some experience in the work place and / or  finish their college education, prior to making this kind of life commitment.

[MarieLynn]

As a former Religious, who is now a mother and grandmother, I can see both sides.

 

From my entrance day at the tender age of 17, I was required to be in another country for my entire formation and beyond.   My mother saw me once in the 6 yrs, and that was when I received 'my obedience' and was posted back to my own country, not to my hometown, but another city.   Even then we were literally hundreds of miles apart!      

Mum knew when I decided I wanted to be a Religious, that I would be in another country, and that she may never see me again.  The sisters were very good, explained everything to her in great detail, she was always welcome to ring with questions, (and there were many), visits to the convent were encouraged, so that she could see for herself what their life was about, and after I entered, they kept in touch and relayed little snippets of news about my progress.   When I was Clothed, she was sent a film reel which was taken at the actual ceremony, so she could see it for herself.   I know my mother missed me terribly, and I missed her as well, but she never put any pressure on me either subtle or obvious, to stay within reach. 

Jesus had said, "Give everything you possess to the poor, and come follow me", and as that 'following'  had to be done in another country, she accepted it and stepped aside so that I could follow Him.

 

Now years later, I am experiencing some of what my mother must have felt.

My  2 children are married now, and have their own children.  I was devastated when my daughter and son-in-law decided to move to the other end of the country, taking the 3 'grandies' with them.   It hurt, and I missed them so much!  I knew I would not be able to visit with them whenever I wanted, as I had been used to doing, but I value the times when I do visit, and make sure that those are quality time visits.  Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that we have to take a step back, and let our children go, and do whatever  it is that they have to do.

 

Talk to your Mom Eumeia, and if it is Carmel that you are being called to, - follow His call.   If it is His will that you enter there, or somewhere else entirely, do not lose sight of the fact that He wants you there.   Your mom will come around  when she sees that you are happy  - you'll see.   Mothers can be, and are, very protective of their offspring.   They only want what is best for you.  What she is going through at the moment is a 'knee jerk' reaction to the fact that you may not be within reach all of the time.   Go where your heart is leading you, not where others think you should go.

    

[He is Risen!]

Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents, I was with a community for a while and during discernment and when I entered, mom was a wreck.  She said all kinds of crazy things, cried buckets, and eventually (it took a very long time) found peace with it.  My superior would say that when a soul follows the will of God, grace will come from it, even if it hurts.  She was right.  A scripture that helped me a lot was the one in Matthew: â€œDo not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ³⁵ For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
³⁶     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’^[c]

³⁷ â€œAnyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. ³⁸ Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. ³⁹ Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

 

I'm praying for you!

[Kateri89]

Eumeia, first of all, I will pray for both you and your mother.  I have a feeling that I will be experiencing something very similar with my mother when I finally enter.  In any case, I think of Jesus accepting the Father's will that He be sent to die on the cross.  His grieving mother accepted her burden just as she had consented to the angel Gabriel.  Mary knew that Jesus would submit to the Father's will and this submission meant that she would have to be separated from her Son completely until they reunited in Heaven.  Certainly Jesus also knew the agony that His suffering and death would cause His mother, but He still fulfilled God's will for His life.

 

I suppose the best advice I can give you is to pray and ask God to help you stay on the path He has chosen for you.  Then ask Him to comfort and console your mother and to show her what a tremendous gift your vocation is.  One of my favorite verses is 1 Corinthians 10:13: "No testing has overtaken you that is not common to everyone.  God is faithful, and he will not let you be tested beyond your strength, but with the testing he will also provide the way out so that you may be able to endure it."  This temptation to sacrifice God's will to ease your mother's suffering is certainly understandable but this life is fleeting and Heaven is eternal.  The suffering your mother endures here on Earth is only temporary and if she is willing to seek Jesus in her suffering, it will become much more bearable.

 

If all this isn't helpful for you, at least tell your mother to consider St. Therese.  Her father sacrificed all five of his daughters to Carmel and though it was painful for him, he considered himself incredibly blessed that God should ask him to make that sacrifice.  God doesn't will anything that is destructive so if He is calling you to Carmel, He will also take care of your mother.  God Bless!

[Orans]

Hello, I am having a difficulty that I would very much like help with. 

 

I am in the middle of applying to enter the Carmel of Jesus, Mary and Joseph - I am about to mail them all the health forms and such so that they can consider me for entrance. However, ever since these forms arrived yesterday my mother has been a wreck. She didn't sleep all last night, and today she has been constantly teary-eyed.

 

Her objection is this - Since the Carmel in Nebraska has a new branch in California just starting, she is afraid that if I were accepted I might one day be transferred to California. - And that would make trips for family visits far too expensive. She tells me my vow of poverty would impoverish my family.

 

This gives me so much grief. I do very much want to enter this Carmel - My mother really wants me to look to the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles instead, since they don't have the possibility of transferring me far away and Missouri would still be a reasonable distance for us.

 

What I really am struggling to know is whether this is an aspect I ought to take seriously into account in discerning to which monastery I am called. I just don't know - I am willing to make these sacrifices, in giving up close frequent contact with my family, but my mother's grief and despair makes me fear that it would be wrong for me to inflict this. Should family visits be the deciding factor? Even though I am more drawn to the Carmel?

 

I'd like to know also if anyone knows how different the Benedictines of Mary are regarding family visits. I think both monasteries allow two visits a year. With the Benedictines is there a grille also? - I'm curious since I know much less about them than I do the Carmelites.

 

You have received very good advice already but I would add my little piece and focus on two things.

First, about your mother's point: her point is not a real issue but a mirage. She is not dealing with reality but with her own issues and is trying to change your mind, whether to protect herself or to protect you.

 

The second point, and most important, is that even though you are already in the process of applying to this Carmel, could it be that in your own mind there is this need to at least know some other choice? This might be what your mother is tapping into -whether conscious or unconsciously. 

 

I would say that these two things need to be addressed separately. And the most critical is the second one. How sure are you that this particular community is your community? Because you will have difficult times in the monastery.  If/when you enter, the question will probably surface again in your mind, was this a good choice? should I have rather listened to my mother?

 

If you think this question is somehow in the back of your mind, then it would be important for you to at least know about other communities (and the Benedictines of Mary is a good one to look into -there is some good advice in the posts above on this). This would not be giving in on your mother's wish but clarifying things for yourself. This is a normal and healthy step in your process of discernment. 

 

But then you need to make up your mind independently of your mother's feelings.

 

So I would support all the advice about not giving in on your mother's opinion because she will always find another mirage to blackmail you (if this were the case), and you will not be able to find your own way in life. But at the same time, God works in funny and simple ways, and this experience may be bringing to the front of your discernment the question about how certain, or how well have you really discerned your future step into this particular community.

 

I would suggest that you pray about all of this. God has something for you in this ordeal and He is ready and willing to tell you what it is. Give yourself time and listen to Him.

 

My prayer is with you. Peace!

[maximillion]

I have to agree with what others have said about your discernment process. If you know anything about Carmelite spirituality you will know that the rich vein of sacrifice runs through it very deeply.....is this what you feel God wants of you? If so perhaps He is preparing you by having you witness how hard things are for your mother......or maybe this is a test to prepare you for the sacrifice of Carmel....I cannot pretend to know His ways, but this would not be unusual. If you stop by and read the challenges some discerners on phatmass have faced on their way into the cloister you might get a different perspective on your situation. If He is choosing for you to suffer now, then yes, this could be a real sign that Carmelite life is for you.

If you find yourself stepping back then maybe a less penitential community may be what you are being lead to.

 

I again offer my prayer for you and your whole family in what must be a very difficult time for you all.

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! I will echo what nunsense says here about the Carmelites and Benedictines being very different. This was the biggest thing that stuck out for me reading your post. Your mother does not seem to have an understanding of this. 

 

It sounds like you feel most drawn to Carmel .. although you could always visit or look into the Benedictines to be sure .. but I don't think your mother desiring that you go there is the best motivation to look into them. I would think even the Sisters there (Benedictines of Mary) would agree .. although if you do feel any drawing to them within your heart, definitely visit.

 

You need to go where God wants you, as others have said. And echoing Mater, we do not choose the monastery, but God does. And again, Carmelites and Benedictines are so different.

 

Regarding the CA foundation, as others have said, it is very unlikely you would go there. Transferring nuns around to different monasteries a Carmel may have established is not usual. As has been said, it is not like active religious who get transferred from one house to the next (like St. Faustina for instance). Valparaiso is not considered the "Motherhouse" of Elysburg and Canyon .. they are independent autonomous monasteries. 

 

The Carmel in Buffalo, NY founded two Carmels also in recent years .. Alexandria, SD & Brooklyn, NY .. but I have only heard of one instance where a Sister was transferred later (after the foundation was established) from Buffalo to Alexandria because of health reasons. And even though the Carmel in Brooklyn, NY has had some need of more vocations, especially because they have a little extra manual labor with their host making business, Buffalo did not send more of their community there .. only once was someone sent there, but it was temporary and she is back in Buffalo now .. as Alexandria did too (send temporary help to Brooklyn) So maybe you can share this with your mother to reassure her.

 

But even if it were the case that you could be transferred, as others have said, God's will must come first. But I do not say you are at fault for not realizing this .. you seem to be sincerely concerned for the feelings of your mother and family, and seem to be truly wondering if this could be a manifestation of God's will. Personally, I would think no .. opposition from family has always been a part of the hurdles someone must jump to respond to God's will/we're called to be completely dettached/the Gospel verses already quoted about leaving your family.

 

If I were you, I would talk to Reverend Mother Prioress and/or Subprioress in Valparaiso about this, and see if maybe your mother could meet or talk with them also ... has your mother gone to visit Valparaiso? Again, I think it's really important that she realizes this is a totally different vocation from that of the Benedictines of Mary. 

 

God bless & prayers for your vocation! :heart:

[Chiquitunga]

p.s. another "echo" from me of others' statements :) Valparaiso will surely be making another foundation soon (within the next 5 years I would guess) as their numbers are getting high again. But I wanted to share, I did hear that most of the nuns who were sent to the Elysburg foundation were from the East Coast from the mother of one of the nuns. This was a deciding factor on who was sent. So it is something the Prioress in Valparaiso does take into consideration. Also I know one of the nuns in Canyon, CA .. her family is on the West Coast. 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2012 by Chiquitunga