Doubt

[theculturewarrior]

Hasan, I've heard that before.  And as such, I am already married, so no thank you!

[Anomaly]

I love you guys.  I love all the sad people.  You all should follow me and subordinate your wills to mine.  For nobody shall ever love any of you as I do.  

 

 

Hasan, I've heard that before.  And as such, I am already married, so no thank you!

 

 

Hasan is trolling you.  You hear it in Church all the time.  :hehe2:

[theculturewarrior]

Paying attention in high-school biology and reading.

 

Google: Pituitary and Love, Hypothalamus and Love, Oxytocin and biology of love. 

Neurobilogy has been around for a long time.  Love, attraction, and bonding isn't just a mind-set, it's also a matter bio-chemistry.  Being able to commit to irrational behavior when "in love" is partly due to brain chemistry, hormones, etc.  Some people can write novels, others can shoot darts, and we differ in how deeply we "feel" in love.

 

I half expect you're just trolling...

 

The pituitary gland is responsible for the secretion of several hormones, and when something is out of whack, there are physical symptoms that go along with it. 

 

I am not trolling.  And I intended no disrespect.

[theculturewarrior]

Hasan is trolling you.  You hear it in Church all the time.  :hehe2:

 

Hasan is a troll with a sense of humor that I enjoy.

[Kevin]

Paying attention in high-school biology and reading.

 

Google: Pituitary and Love, Hypothalamus and Love, Oxytocin and biology of love. 

Neurobilogy has been around for a long time.  Love, attraction, and bonding isn't just a mind-set, it's also a matter bio-chemistry.  Being able to commit to irrational behavior when "in love" is partly due to brain chemistry, hormones, etc.  Some people can write novels, others can shoot darts, and we differ in how deeply we "feel" in love.

 

I half expect you're just trolling...

 

I'm not sure that our understanding of brain science is such that we can just point to a section of it and say "There! Broken!" If that was the case, I think my Zoloft would take care of this problem better.

 

@Hasan

 

I love you too, in a sense. I will not subordinate my will though.

 

@Selah

 

I guess my life has just been troublesome. Things don't work out for me when I want them too quite often. I think that's the root of it.

 

@theculturewarrior

 

I have considered going to a therapist, since I think just meds alone are not getting it done.

[Selah]

 

 

 

I guess my life has just been troublesome. Things don't work out for me when I want them too quite often. I think that's the root of it.

 

 

Do you think God's love is dependent upon things working out for you, or how life goes? Is God's love conditional to you?

[Anomaly]

I'm not sure that our understanding of brain science is such that we can just point to a section of it and say "There! Broken!" If that was the case, I think my Zoloft would take care of this problem better.

 

@Hasan

 

I love you too, in a sense. I will not subordinate my will though.

 

@Selah

 

I guess my life has just been troublesome. Things don't work out for me when I want them too quite often. I think that's the root of it.

 

@theculturewarrior

 

I have considered going to a therapist, since I think just meds alone are not getting it done.

 

Kevin,

It's the same science that figured out Zoloft.  Read up on it.  Some things that are different, don't have to be "fixed" by ingesting chemicals.  With that said, you absolutely SHOULD see a therapist if you are on Zoloft.  You're right, meds alone are highly unlikely to get the job done.  Chemical actions are only part of the complex system that the human brain/mind is.  I don't mean to be disrespectful, harsh, or sarcastic.  Don't take my (or any 1 person's) word for it, do a bit of research and explore this.  It's sound recommendation that everyone seeking to resolve mental/emotional issues should seek both consulting (verbal therapy) along with chemical/drug therapy for maximum aid.  It's great you're discussing things here, and you are getting a lot of good and valuable advice, but there are people who have spent years studying and training that are better equipped and more able.

[theculturewarrior]

I would give that props, Anomaly, but I am unable.  I am also not quite sure what props are, other than that they are good.  Nevertheless, well stated.

[Kevin]

Do you think God's love is dependent upon things working out for you, or how life goes? Is God's love conditional to you?

 

It's not a rational thing. I just mean that, my life has been full of disillusionment and disappointment - things I hoped were true turned out not to be. So on a subconscious level, I feel like hard to continue having hope about such a big question. Though of course I want to.

[Kevin]

Kevin,

It's the same science that figured out Zoloft.  Read up on it.  Some things that are different, don't have to be "fixed" by ingesting chemicals.  With that said, you absolutely SHOULD see a therapist if you are on Zoloft.  You're right, meds alone are highly unlikely to get the job done.  Chemical actions are only part of the complex system that the human brain/mind is.  I don't mean to be disrespectful, harsh, or sarcastic.  Don't take my (or any 1 person's) word for it, do a bit of research and explore this.  It's sound recommendation that everyone seeking to resolve mental/emotional issues should seek both consulting (verbal therapy) along with chemical/drug therapy for maximum aid.  It's great you're discussing things here, and you are getting a lot of good and valuable advice, but there are people who have spent years studying and training that are better equipped and more able.

 

What I was saying about the pituitary gland is, I think that there are probably several parts of the brain that contribute to "love". I am positive dopamine has something to due with it, and that comes from the substantia nigra and the ventral tegmental area. I just think there is a huge amount we don't know about the brain, so I am a little skeptical of locating any single emotion in one area.

 

I agree I need some counseling. I had been seeing someone in the city I used to live in before I started grad school, but I have been putting off re-starting.

[theculturewarrior]

As an American with a Disability, graduate school was the most difficult time of my life, emotionally and spiritually.  If you are far away from family, it is probably much, much worse than I had it.  I think if your faith is suffering, maybe getting closer to the Church by socializing with young adults might benefit you too.

 

I am pretty open about my recovery from mental illness, not totally by choice, but mostly because I have nothing to be ashamed of and I do not want to be accepted by anyone who thinks that I do.  There is still hope for you though.  I will be praying for you that you find a safe place to work these issues out.

[AccountDeleted]

I recently read a murder mystery novel - it had nothing to do with religion or faith really but there was a character in the novel, an elderly parish lady who helped out at the church. She had lost her faith but at the end of the book she remembered something that a priest had told her. 'When you can't believe, act as if you do. When you feel you can't pray, pray anyway.' I was fascinated by this comment and thought about it a lot.

 

I think in your situation Kevin, you might want to try this advice. You appear to have a desire to have faith even though you say you don't. Like that man who said to Jesus, 'I believe. Heal my unbelief.' I think it might be time for you to act as if you did believe and pray even when you feel you cannot pray. When the storm clouds come and the rain is falling, it can sometimes feel as it the clouds will never lift, but they always do. If you continue to pray and to act as if you do have faith, then God will support you in this (whether you believe in Him or not). Mother Teresa went through a dark night of the soul that lasted for 40 years, but she never stopped being faithful or serving God. She is now a saint.

 

When St Theresa of the Andes' brother Luca said to her that God did not exist, she replied, 'Exista, Luca, exista.' meaning "He exists, Luca, He exists.' The first step is to ignore the doubting voice and to trust that this is true. Jesus believed in God. And even those who don't believe in God and say that Jesus wasn't divine, he was just a good man or a prophet, admit that He was a pretty extraordinary human being. So if this supreme example of humanity believed in God, you wouldn't be in bad company to believe it too. All else will flow from that simple step towards Him. Let Him into your heart by taking the first step, whether you feel anything or not.

 

You say that you can’t feel love anymore. Well, flattened affect (a loss of emotional feeling) is a side effect of some anti-depressants, and Zoloft can contribute to this. You might either speak to your doctor about a change of anti-depressants (different medications affect people differently) or you could accept that for now you aren’t feeling strong emotions and allow yourself to be this way. It may be that you are worrying needlessly about something that isn’t really a problem.

 

You also said in one of your posts that if you could stop thinking this way, you would. Part of that is self-discipline. Thoughts can come without our desiring them, but there are ways to avoid troubling thoughts. That’s how people overcome their baser natures. We learn not to speak everything that comes into our heads, and the next step is to learn how to direct our thoughts to areas that will benefit us.

 

Finally, I think that someone suffering from depression walks a thin line between the physical, the psychological and the spiritual states. It is important to make sure that all of these areas are balanced. Eat well, sleep well, exercise, take your medication or seek a more appropriate one, stay away from alcohol or other depressants, pray often and trust in God to give you what you need.

 

I am a great fan of reason mixed with faith, and I love our Holy Father, Benedict for his incredible example of this, but there is no use trying to base your faith on proving everything to yourself through words. Aquinas himself said, ‘It is all as straw.’ In the end, faith is greater than all the logic and reason in the world and that means you have to take a chance and trust.

 

Jesus said, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Mt17:20

 

I will pray for you Kevin, that God sends His Holy Spirit to strengthen you and comfort you when it gets really dark for you. As an ex psychiatric nurse, I do believe that medication can help the biological aspects of depression so I encourage you to get any medication you take sorted out, but for the spiritual  acedia and despair that you also seem to be feeling, your best, greatest hope is to walk with Jesus in childlike trust.

 

 

 

[Freedom]

Probably, part of the issue is also that I have, over the years, become more and more of a pessimist. Sometimes I feel like the Love of God for us, the fact that our lives have meaning in spite of all appearances, is just wishful thinking. I don't want to think this way, but sometimes I can't help it.

 

I also feel like, in my heart, I feel no love for anyone or anything. Like I lost that capacity a long time ago. I love my family of course, but that is not the deep overpowering love I hear tell of. I can be interested in something, but whenever the thought of love comes to me, the shadow of skepticism about the meaningfulness of life creeps up on me. I hate it it, but I don't know how to stop it. What makes it truly unbearable is knowing that even most skeptics are able to ignore this urge and live their lives as if, in a world without God, love had any meaning at all.

 

So all those who believe in, love God and feel that our lives have meaning is all wishful thinking?  Very nice of you.   Perhaps you should try and be more positive rather than being pessimistic about God, love, people and life.  

 

As far as having doubts about God or Jesus' existence, I think the Shroud of Turin is enough evidence.  We don't have the technology to reproduce the type of energy and power it took to make the image of Jesus.  He was the only one Crucified who had a crown of thorns which you can see while looking at the Shroud.  If we don't have the technology now, there is no way they had it then.

 

For those who believe, no proof is necessary.  For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. 

[Selah]

It's not a rational thing. I just mean that, my life has been full of disillusionment and disappointment - things I hoped were true turned out not to be. So on a subconscious level, I feel like hard to continue having hope about such a big question. Though of course I want to.

 

I know what you mean, and I know how that feels. It's hard. I think everyone comes to the conclusion of God's love at some point, even if it takes a while. It did for me. 

 

I'll pray for you. I hope you can have hope about it soon. I know how it feels, to want to know and believe it.

[AccountDeleted]

So all those who believe in, love God and feel that our lives have meaning is all wishful thinking?  Very nice of you.   Perhaps you should try and be more positive rather than being pessimistic about God, love, people and life.  

 

As far as having doubts about God or Jesus' existence, I think the Shroud of Turin is enough evidence.  We don't have the technology to reproduce the type of energy and power it took to make the image of Jesus.  He was the only one Crucified who had a crown of thorns which you can see while looking at the Shroud.  If we don't have the technology now, there is no way they had it then.

 

For those who believe, no proof is necessary.  For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. 

 

Freedom - your post comes across as very harsh towards a person who has depression and is suffering doubts.

 

I don't think Kevin meant that we are all engaged in wishful thinking but, to him, it sometimes appears as wishful thinking. This means that he wishes it were true but can't quite believe it, or is afraid to believe it.

 

I think that those of us who have a strong faith need to realise that it is a great gift bestowed upon us and not be uncharitable towards those who can't find the gift in the midst of this crazy secular world. We won't lead others to faith by attacking them, only by serving them with love as Our Lord did. It doesn't matter how much faith you have Freedom if you don't have love for others.

Edited December 1, 2012 by nunsense