Doubt

[Kevin]

All human beings trace their ancestry to one human mother and one human father.  This was discovered in mapping the genome.  This a father and mother who were not involved with each other, as they were thousands of years apart, but that in itself makes the requirement of faith easier for me to accept.  It is impossible to know how it happened.  It does not seem implausible however to believe that the human race began with two human beings, a man, and a woman.  Believing even that does not seem to be a requirement of the canon law that you cite.  It says our firsts parents.  Our first parents doubtlessly existed, or we wouldn't be here.

 

As for the Original Sin, again, I think an out-of-the-box approach is the only lucid way to look at it.  What does it really mean?  I don't have an answer, but the Church does.  I know from my own search for truth that God's answer may not be the simple black and white answer that most Catholics want.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by an out-of-the-box approach. I think we can say, we don't know what happened specifically, but it had to have been an act of choice. Perhaps the Adam was simply a leader of a group of humans right before the Upper Paleolithic Revolution who accepted a certain temptation and his people followed suit (this would resolve some of the objections generated by genetics) Or any number of things - the setting and the actors can change, but the the theme must be the same. It must have been a choice and I don't think there is any orthodox way around that.

[theculturewarrior]

What is it that you doubt?  Does it trouble you to believe that a choice made by an early ancestor still affects today?  I am trying to understand, because I was reading this as though you doubted the historicity of it.

Edited November 29, 2012 by theculturewarrior

[Kevin]

What is it that you doubt?  Does it trouble you to believe that a choice made by an early ancestor still affects today?  I am trying to understand, because I was reading this as though you doubted the historicity of it.

 

No, it doesn't trouble me at all. The problem is that, like I said, I wish I knew more about how it exactly happened - it's easy enough to create a plausible scenario (actually, Tolkien played with the idea of fitting the Fall into the story of Middle-Earth), but we will never really know what it was like, and we ultimately don't have any proof that it happened. Maybe I just wish that Genesis was a bit less metaphorical. But I understand that this is where faith comes in - and at the very least, I don't think it has been definitely proved that human intelligence emerged for purely natural circumstances. I would not consider that proved unless I saw a second example of intelligent life emerging in such a way on another planet (though of course, even then it would not be "proof", just a strong indication).

[theculturewarrior]

This doesn't strike me as doubt in the spiritual sense.  I have suffered from both scruples and depression at various times and I have felt this way.

[homeschoolmom]

Double posting is not appropriate.

 

I'm sure it was not intentional. As Selah pointed out, it's not inappropriate to ask questions and express doubts here.

[LouisvilleFan]

As to depression, not really - I take my 100 mg of Zoloft pretty religiously. I think it's just that I need someone to talk to, and I think what you say about a spiritual councilor is right.

 

I'm not sure that the prescription is a cure (of course, I'm not a doctor either). Perhaps with a spiritual director you could learn if your doubts are truly intellectual or more a symptom of depression. I've had a regular confessor, phone counseling, and a couple different spiritual directiors... for me there were certainly signs of depression, but social anxiety actually turned out to be at the root of everything along with a cycle of negative internal thoughts. Being about to break that made a world of difference.

[mortify]

Only God can bestow faith on a person

[Kevin]

I agree, but this thread is also very troll like.

 

I'm sorry if it comes off that way. I assure you I am entirely sincere - I really don't want to be bothered by these questions, but sometimes they gnaw at me. As I said, of course there are reasonable answers to everything I said, but sometimes not knowing with any certainty is just unbearable to me. Probably, part of the issue is also that I have, over the years, become more and more of a pessimist. Sometimes I feel like the Love of God for us, the fact that our lives have meaning in spite of all appearances, is just wishful thinking. I don't want to think this way, but sometimes I can't help it.

 

I also feel like, in my heart, I feel no love for anyone or anything. Like I lost that capacity a long time ago. I love my family of course, but that is not the deep overpowering love I hear tell of. I can be interested in something, but whenever the thought of love comes to me, the shadow of skepticism about the meaningfulness of life creeps up on me. I hate it it, but I don't know how to stop it. What makes it truly unbearable is knowing that even most skeptics are able to ignore this urge and live their lives as if, in a world without God, love had any meaning at all.

[Anomaly]

I'm sorry if it comes off that way. I assure you I am entirely sincere - I really don't want to be bothered by these questions, but sometimes they gnaw at me. As I said, of course there are reasonable answers to everything I said, but sometimes not knowing with any certainty is just unbearable to me. Probably, part of the issue is also that I have, over the years, become more and more of a pessimist. Sometimes I feel like the Love of God for us, the fact that our lives have meaning in spite of all appearances, is just wishful thinking. I don't want to think this way, but sometimes I can't help it.

 

I also feel like, in my heart, I feel no love for anyone or anything. Like I lost that capacity a long time ago. I love my family of course, but that is not the deep overpowering love I hear tell of. I can be interested in something, but whenever the thought of love comes to me, the shadow of skepticism about the meaningfulness of life creeps up on me. I hate it it, but I don't know how to stop it. What makes it truly unbearable is knowing that even most skeptics are able to ignore this urge and live their lives as if, in a world without God, love had any meaning at all.

 

You have a defective pituitary gland.

[theculturewarrior]

You have a defective pituitary gland.

 

Please tell us how you arrived at this conclusion.  That is interesting.

[Kevin]

You have a defective pituitary gland.

 

I'm not sure about that. It's more like, I have no one to love. I am far from my family, and I have never been able to, you know, meet girls in that way. It's gotten to the point where I can't even feel any interest in a romantic comedy, like it was about people from another planet with completely alien ways.

[theculturewarrior]

Kevin, I suffered from anxiety, depression, and scruples for most of my life.  This sounds like something that could best be worked out with a counselor or psychologist.  It would be best to find one who is sympathetic to your religious beliefs, and many priests do acquire advance certifications and training in these areas.  I would like to know how Anomaly arrived at that conclusion.  Failing that, this does not seem like a safe place to post the kinds of concerns that you have.

[Selah]

Sometimes I feel like the Love of God for us, the fact that our lives have meaning in spite of all appearances, is just wishful thinking. I don't want to think this way, but sometimes I can't help it.

 

 

 

 

I understand what you mean, because I felt that way for the longest time. I was no depressed and sad, and no amounts of "God loves you" could have helped me.

 

Why do you think it is wishful thinking? Just curious. 

 

God bless you.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Selah

[4588686]

I love you guys.  I love all the sad people.  You all should follow me and subordinate your wills to mine.  For nobody shall ever love any of you as I do.  

Edited November 30, 2012 by Hasan

[Anomaly]

Please tell us how you arrived at this conclusion.  That is interesting.

 

Paying attention in high-school biology and reading.

 

Google: Pituitary and Love, Hypothalamus and Love, Oxytocin and biology of love. 

Neurobilogy has been around for a long time.  Love, attraction, and bonding isn't just a mind-set, it's also a matter bio-chemistry.  Being able to commit to irrational behavior when "in love" is partly due to brain chemistry, hormones, etc.  Some people can write novels, others can shoot darts, and we differ in how deeply we "feel" in love.

 

I half expect you're just trolling...