Doubt

[Kevin]

[quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1354048129' post='2517829']
First off, Catholics aren't required to discredit evolution. Bl. John Paul the Great himself referred to it as "more than a hypothesis." You'll want to check out [i]Fides et Ratio,[/i] I think. Furthermore, a literal interpretation of Genesis isn't strictly necessary (again, I think this is in FeR), at least as regards creation. Genesis isn't a science textbook.

[color=#222222][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]The blue is incorrect. When you enter Christianity, you're not buying into some philosophical system. You're buying into the fact that at a specific time, in a specific place, God became man, died, and rose from the dead, etc. Christ's mission was not primarily to teach some sort of moral philosophy. You don't need an Incarnation for that (cf the Law at Sinai). So, something you'll want to consider is that if you're a Christian you're not just going in for some sort of right/wrong thing. You're staking your life on an historical fact, one which others can defend better than I. But yeah. The thing when analyzing Christianity (or even Judaism or Islam, I suppose), is not deciding if it agrees with what you think is good. The question you really want to have answered here is whether or not it happened.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[/quote]

I don't think there is conflict between evolution and belief per se, but I think the Church says that one must acknowledge God created the soul, and that Adam and Eve and the Fall really happened. I don't have trouble believing in the Fall...I just wish I knew what really happened, if it is a metaphor for something else or a literal truth.

And I agree that it is the historical fact that is important. But I also think that it implies a moral and philosophical system as handed down to the apostles and the Fathers. In fact, the main reason why I find Christianity, and that [i]believed fact [/i]more acceptable than that of other religions, if because I agree with that philosophical and moral system, and I believe theologically in the idea of the Incarnation.

I appreciate everything everyone has said. I think I just needed to get this off my chest. The things I said at the beginning of this thread are actually questions to which I think I know the answers, but I am not sure if my answers are right. But talking about it makes it a lot better. And I appreciate any prayers said for me.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Kevin

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1354048129' post='2517829']
But really, you might want to post something like this in Transmundane. Praying for you.
[/quote]

I agree, I was just going to say, there are Church Scholars in the Q&A and posters on the Transmundane boards that would be good to talk to. Welcome to the boards and don't be a stranger.

[Chrysophylax]

I'm trying to be helpful, but if this is too much or doesn't make sense, let me know. I am taking/ recommending pieces from John Paul the Great's [i]'Fides et Ratio'[/i] (Faith and Reason). You can find it [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html"]here[/url]. It is so wonderful, I truly recommend reading all of it, but it is very long, so as I am reading it I will try and pick out some pieces that might be helpful.

5- almost the statement of the problem:
[quote]
"Modern philosophy clearly has the great merit of focusing attention upon man. From this starting-point, human reason with its many questions has developed further its yearning to know more and to know it ever more deeply. Complex systems of thought have thus been built, yielding results in the different fields of knowledge and fostering the development of culture and history. Anthropology, logic, the natural sciences, history, linguistics and so forth—the whole universe of knowledge has been involved in one way or another. Yet the positive results achieved must not obscure the fact that reason, in its one-sided concern to investigate human subjectivity, seems to have forgotten that men and women are always called to direct their steps towards a truth which transcends them. Sundered from that truth, individuals are at the mercy of caprice, and their state as person ends up being judged by pragmatic criteria based essentially upon experimental data, in the mistaken belief that technology must dominate all. It has happened therefore that reason, rather than voicing the human orientation towards truth, has wilted under the weight of so much knowledge and little by little has lost the capacity to lift its gaze to the heights, not daring to rise to the truth of being. Abandoning the investigation of being, modern philosophical research has concentrated instead upon human knowing. Rather than make use of the human capacity to know the truth, modern philosophy has preferred to accentuate the ways in which this capacity is limited and conditioned.

This has given rise to different forms of agnosticism and relativism which have led philosophical research to lose its way in the shifting sands of widespread scepticism. Recent times have seen the rise to prominence of various doctrines which tend to devalue even the truths which had been judged certain. A legitimate plurality of positions has yielded to an undifferentiated pluralism, based upon the assumption that all positions are equally valid, which is one of today's most widespread symptoms of the lack of confidence in truth. Even certain conceptions of life coming from the East betray this lack of confidence, denying truth its exclusive character and assuming that truth reveals itself equally in different doctrines, even if they contradict one another. On this understanding, everything is reduced to opinion; and there is a sense of being adrift. While, on the one hand, philosophical thinking has succeeded in coming closer to the reality of human life and its forms of expression, it has also tended to pursue issues—existential, hermeneutical or linguistic—which ignore the radical question of the truth about personal existence, about being and about God. Hence we see among the men and women of our time, and not just in some philosophers, attitudes of widespread distrust of the human being's great capacity for knowledge. With a false modesty, people rest content with partial and provisional truths, no longer seeking to ask radical questions about the meaning and ultimate foundation of human, personal and social existence. In short, the hope that philosophy might be able to provide definitive answers to these questions has dwindled."
[/quote]

14- existence of God, St. Anselm
[quote]
[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]14. "From the teaching of the two Vatican Councils there also emerges a genuinely novel consideration for philosophical learning. Revelation has set within history a point of reference which cannot be ignored if the mystery of human life is to be known. Yet this knowledge refers back constantly to the mystery of God which the human mind cannot exhaust but can only receive and embrace in faith. Between these two poles, reason has its own specific field in which it can enquire and understand, restricted only by its finiteness before the infinite mystery of God.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Revelation therefore introduces into our history a universal and ultimate truth which stirs the human mind to ceaseless effort; indeed, it impels reason continually to extend the range of its knowledge until it senses that it has done all in its power, leaving no stone unturned. To assist our reflection on this point we have one of the most fruitful and important minds in human history, a point of reference for both philosophy and theology: Saint Anselm. In his [i]Proslogion[/i], the Archbishop of Canterbury puts it this way: “Thinking of this problem frequently and intently, at times it seemed I was ready to grasp what I was seeking; at other times it eluded my thought completely, until finally, despairing of being able to find it, I wanted to abandon the search for something which was impossible to find. I wanted to rid myself of that thought because, by filling my mind, it distracted me from other problems from which I could gain some profit; but it would then present itself with ever greater insistence... Woe is me, one of the poor children of Eve, far from God, what did I set out to do and what have I accomplished? What was I aiming for and how far have I got? What did I aspire to and what did I long for?... O Lord, you are not only that than which nothing greater can be conceived ([i]non solum es quo maius cogitari nequit[/i]), but you are greater than all that can be conceived ([i]quiddam maius quam cogitari possit[/i])... If you were not such, something greater than you could be thought, but this is impossible”.(20)[/size][/font]"
[/quote]
If you want more info on the St. Anselm argument, I just covered that recently in my philosophy class...

These two things are from rather early on in the document and are really only a tiny part. (I'm also not so sure how much these pieces will make sense out of context.)

Hmm.. I see that other people have posted here since I started writing this. I myself haven't finished rereading Fides et Ratio, but if this is at all helpful, maybe I could post more of it later. This document is just so amazing, I hope you look into it. Prayers for you!
~Chryso

[4588686]

[quote name='Chrysophylax' timestamp='1354050454' post='2517848']
I'm trying to be helpful, but if this is too much or doesn't make sense, let me know. I am taking/ recommending pieces from John Paul the Great's [i]'Fides et Ratio'[/i] (Faith and Reason). You can find it [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html"]here[/url]. It is so wonderful, I truly recommend reading all of it, but it is very long, so as I am reading it I will try and pick out some pieces that might be helpful.

5- almost the statement of the problem:


14- existence of God, St. Anselm

If you want more info on the St. Anselm argument, I just covered that recently in my philosophy class...

These two things are from rather early on in the document and are really only a tiny part. (I'm also not so sure how much these pieces will make sense out of context.)

Hmm.. I see that other people have posted here since I started writing this. I myself haven't finished rereading Fides et Ratio, but if this is at all helpful, maybe I could post more of it later. This document is just so amazing, I hope you look into it. Prayers for you!
~Chryso
[/quote]


St. Anselm actually had two arguments. Kant unarguably destroyed the first but some people believe that the second may be logically consistent. Kurt Godel attempted to reproduce a proof of the ontological argument and you can read his notes. His argument is consistent but his axioms were considered shaky

I'd recommend you look at some of Plantinga's and Norman Malcolm's stuff.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1354043921' post='2517756']
It's all arbitrary. Adding God into the mix only moves the arbitrariness back one step.






[/quote]
It's a giant step though. Atheism makes no sense. The most complex organism known is the most destructive and anti-evolution. And it seems from the evil we evidence in the world there is more proof for the existence of the devil than for God. If it weren't weighted by external forces most people would believe in the devil as the God who rules the earth. Yet less people believe in the devil than in God. In atheism you cannot rationalise many moral values! You cannot find purpose for love! kindness to the weak! shyness! To name a few. Atheists have doubts too! Trying to find plugs for these gaps. So it doesn't matter what you believe you will always face doubt. The only thing you can be absolutely certain of is the existence of your mind. But then you are stuck on the question of how could this come to be? And any explanation is confronted with doubt. Theism completes most of the puzzle even before we start looking for evidence. I'm quite happy with the "scientific evidence" of "evolution" but I believe that God created a set of physical, chemical, biological rules and generally lets them do their thing just the way a computer programmer writes software to create cyber worlds and lets them create themselves. But even then there are problems to explain it all. I think doubt in God amongst theists is an anxiety thing. Whenever I get pangs of doubt which is rare these days, I just think what does it matter? I'm getting the most out of life because of my theism. What is the point of existence if it leads to a dead end? What purpose would there be in abandoning something that gives so much joy and purpose to my life? You have to ask yourself is it possible to love and feel loved by something that does not exist especially when there is a book that explains about who and why you feel this. For me most of the scriptures quoting Jesus has legs of its own. It jumps off the page at you. And could not been made up even by the most imaginative writers. In Jesus time and still now most peoples mentality is earthbound. People lack the capability to see that the physical universe exists within a greater reality.

[Kevin]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1354051005' post='2517853']


St. Anselm actually had two arguments. Kant unarguably destroyed the first but some people believe that the second may be logically consistent. Kurt Godel attempted to reproduce a proof of the ontological argument and you can read his notes. His argument is consistent but his axioms were considered shaky

I'd recommend you look at some of Plantinga's and Norman Malcolm's stuff.
[/quote]

I don't really buy the ontological argument. Aquinas's Summa Contra Gentiles goes basically showed me all I need about it. I think the argument from contingency has a lot of merits (though it really is not definitive), because the alternative is an infinite set of contingent entities giving rise to each other, and as as Duns pointed out, even an infinite set would need some kind of explaination outside itself. But in the end, as I have said, one might posit natural law (though not the universe itself, which is obviously contingent in its parts) as a non-contingent entity. So there is room for doubt.

I have read Norman Malcom's stuff on Wittgenstein - I was unaware he was a Christian. I have not read Plantigina, though this is in part because I am a little embarressed about his connections to the Discovery Institute, which even if its goals had some merit, set out to do them in an underhanded, sneaky way that I don't like.

@Mark

I appreciate your position, but I really really really don't want this to turn into an Christianity vs Atheism thread. I have trod that road too long. I do think, at the very least, Agnosticism, and I mean genuine Agnosticism not just saying you can't know as a cop out, has some merits. And while I do recognize idea that, even if its not true, Christianity can give one a sense of well being and purpose, but I don't think that alone is enough reason to believe in it.

But like I said, I am feeling better about the issue now that I have taken a moment to discuss it a bit.

[Kevin]

@Hasan

Now that I read it, I think what you were saying about what is permitted being arbitrary with or without God, because if goodness is just whatever God says, it may as well be arbitrary. But I don't think that's right. I don't really know how to explain it, but I think Aquinas says, for God, unlike for man, his existence and his essence are one and the same. So it is not that whatever arbitrary thing God decrees is right, because those decrees are based on his essence, which is Love. I am probably explaining it wrong though, and maybe you could poke a lot of holes into this, but that I just my thought. I wasn't even really talking about doing good or bad in the first place, but the idea that, without God, there is no ultimate meaning behind our actions, good, bad, or indifferent. Or at least that is my thought.

One other thing is, I really don't want to worry about philosophy any more (even though I contradict that in this very post). I have read so much of it on the issue it makes my brain hurt. Really, if people who read this prayed for me, I think that is the most I could ask for.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Kevin

[Luigi]

One (very strange) man's statement. Take it for what it's worth. Ignore the last couple of sentences.

Leonard Cohen reciting "God Is Alive, Magic Is Afoot"

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3enVT53yDLM&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3enVT53yDLM&feature=related[/url]

[LouisvilleFan]

Hi Kevin, thanks for sharing. I'd like to reply to a few things, starting with the fundamental question in your last paragraph:

[quote name='Kevin' timestamp='1354026539' post='2517665']

I just want to know, how can I deal with this doubt without just turning away from God?
[/quote]

I think your doubts stem from the fact that you know there is something deeper in both faith and science that would answer your questions, and you're not satisfied with the answers you have found so far. Maybe start by considering it more like a grace from God instead of a doubt within yourself? It would make sense that what you consider a doubt is actually a grace if it returned when you started going to Mass again.

From there, I think most of the specific issues you state would start coming into focus if you look at Creationism through a different lens. Have you read Dei Verbum or some good books about Scripture and how the Church interprets it? (I don't know any offhand, but I'm sure people have suggestions)

 

Below is my take on the specific issues you mentioned, taking into account what I know through both the Church and science. The basic theme is science answers the How? questions and the Church answers the Why? questions.

 

The fossil record and evolution? Scripture reveals who is our Creator and our purpose for living. Science reveals how we were created. I believe God created us in His image, male and female, to love Him and love one another, and that evolution (Big Bang, dinosaurs, fossils, monkeys, etc.) were the method through which God eventually made Adam and Eve and implanted a human soul within them. You see, science can say we evolved from a monkey, and Scripture never contradicts that. Rather, it teaches that we have a soul and a dignity given by God, which gives us a purpose and resposibilty over all of Creation.

Thus, the Bible doesn't give any indication of evolution because science is outside it's scope. Genesis serves a more philosophical purpose. The events are true, but it isn't a science or history textbook, and obviously doesn't make sense when we read it that way. But it does make sense when we read it to learn who we are and why we exist.

Regarding other religions, Catholicism does not consider them man-made inventions to be tossed out like an atheist would. The Church recognizes that behind every faith and religion is a search for God and Truth. So there is something good in every belief (even atheism, in its acknowledgement that only one Truth exists). The full Truth is found in the Catholic Church. Believing this frees us to recognize parts of the Truth found elsewhere, and to believe that God's Love is indeed available to all through whatever is good, true, and beautiful in their life.

"Why did all humanity save the Jews forget where they had come from?" The Jews forgot countless times too. The only one who remembered was God, who revealed Himself to the Jews and promised to send a Savior through them (even in spite of themselves). Of course, God sent a Savior for all people - Jews and Gentiles.

And in the afterlife, there is no time, so "trillions and trillions of years" is really a misnomer. We will simply "be" with God. I've always imagined it like an immense castle with countless rooms, intricate passages, towers, and caverns... surrounded by a city stretching as far as the eye can see... all to explore and enjoy like any of those brief moments in our lives that we wished could last forever -- and that wish comes true. If you haven't been in love, read some good love poetry. Even those who know they will die someday dare to speak of loving each other forever. That's a foretaste of heaven.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Hi, I've struggled with doubt about the existence of God too. It sort of went away later on as I prayed and got to know Him more. But sometimes temptations and doubts stay, maybe sometimes it's a trial... you can increase your faith through this by believing in God despite the doubts you feel :) One thing that I heard that I found very useful, is that with temptations against faith or purity, never battle them directly, that would tend to increase them.. it's just how it works for some reason. Instead, try to run from them. Don't dwell on them... maybe you've been dwelling on them a lot. I know you maybe want to, just to figure things out. But when we have all this doubt, it's like something pressing down on us, there is *no* clarity. How can we figure anything out without finding clarity first? For this we need to find God... make sure you don't consent to the doubts, confess all your sins, receive the Sacraments (without consenting to the doubts: that is important), pray... the more we pray, the better it would get, eventually. Maybe not at first, but keep praying. Pray the Rosary... go to Eucharistic Adoration, or just visit the church when it's open and pray by the Tabernacle, if your church doesn't have Adoration... use Sacramentals, holy water... the Miraculous Medal :) it was just the feast of the Miraculous Medal. Read the Bible, books by the Saints, things to help you. Don't dwell on these arguments until you find clarity first, in your mind. This clarity would come from God. Try to pray because it's really hard without prayer.

 

To address some of your concerns...I'm not sure if my reply would be helpful, but I recommend praying for grace so that God could help you with your doubts.

 

God knows how He created the world. The scientists have been trying to figure it out for centuries. Maybe leave this to God, because He knows. Remember science is constantly evolving... pun intended :) we don't know everything. Science is based on what we can observe.. but what are the methods we use to observe? what are we observing? is everything observable? has everything that could help lead us to the right understanding been found? I mean - we know God exists because He revealed this to us... and it is something reasonable to believe, not unreasonable. But science can't disprove the existence of God because it deals with creation that we can see, and God is above this, by the very reason that He is the Creator.

 

Leaving things to God is not filling in things in the gaps in the way the atheists say... it's being humble to acknowledge that we dont' in fact know everything.

 

As for other religions, it's complicated... I mean, some (the idea that there is God,for example) is true... some is not... we know that Christianity has been revealed and is fully true. The reason other religions didn't get it fully is because we need God to reveal it to us, we cant just know it by ourselves... that's my understanding... and clearly with our ignorance, limitations, and also original sin, and lack of knowledge about the divine, things do get skewed without God intervening somehow. So, He intervened. Remember that since the fall, people don't automatically live in union with God: so there is much to overcome for us, to know the truth, because to find it we need to find God... since He is Truth. All truth comes from Him. Since we are away from Him, He has brought Himself and Truth to us, in His Son. He who knows the Son, knows the Father.

 

Regarding Heaven being frightening because it lasts forever... the Saints who experienced even a bit of God's love, were so overcome by it, they wanted it to last forever. I think once we experience God, we would never want to leave His presence :) and we'll have no sin, so we wouldn't have anything blocking us from Him or experiencing His Presence in the truest way. Here on earth, we have the Eucharist, and  we need to receive Him with trust and in a state of grace... Feelings regarding our faith: that is a gift... it's not something we can make in ourselves. God asks of our good will :) remember faith is a choice.

 

Regarding Heaven and the experience of time, that is not something I know about, but I'm sure whatever it is, it would be great because it would be a place of great joy :) once a soul gets there, I don't think this issue is something to worry about. Jesus said, He goes to prepare a place for us... so the gift from God to be with Him, is something that He thought of knowing how He created us... we have nothing to fear with God :) the only thing to fear is offending Him, out of love. Not His plan for us. I don't think we should fear His plans for our eternity because they are good, and God is good.

 

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to brush away your problems or minimize them. Not at all... I know what it's like to struggle with terrible doubts, and thoughts that dont seem to leave. It's painful and very confusing... I know how painful it must be because I've gone through similar things too. But - I think the answer is found not in trying to figure it out while in this state of confusion... it is trying to pray and learning to trust God, so He can give you clarity and fill your mind with light. You need God's light... dont' rely simply on your reason, because right now you are going through confusion... resist the idea to leave God or to give up. DON'T focus or dwell on these thoughts, but run from them, until you find more clarity and then ask God to help you with them. This is what I find helpful. It might take time to figure it out, and it might take time to feel like you've 'found' God, but He is right there now... He is not far away. Try to think of it like that... God is right NOW there with you, wherever you are... He also knows everything that you are going through... when we doubt, we close ourselves to God so it's really hard to feel any help from Him. When we trust, we open ourselves up and receive more graces. Try to trust, simply in your will, - to start to come closer to Him. If you can't make yourself will this, try as much as you can, without giving up, and then ask God to take you the rest of the way, and then just surrender to Him. Again it might take a bit of time to figure out how to do this, - we are always learning :) but focus on your will, and try to trust not starting in your feelings, but starting in your decision to at least try to trust. Then make the very best attempt you can, and then ask God to help you with the rest, then keep intending to trust Him, and wait. I'm not trying to figure out a technique, lol, but just a way to escape focusing on your doubts for a time. Try focusing on your will instead, while asking God to help you reach out to Him, or even to want to reach out to Him, if that is difficult. If it's hard to think of God being there with you, try to maybe imagine this first, perhaps... but eventually, it would not be imagining anymore, you might see when it would just become obvious. It would be like something you 'know', not even just believe intellectually. But it's very important to not dwell on doubts. I know someone might say, - not here but let's say an atheist  in a hypothetical scenario - if you keep on putting away thoughts that contradict your faith, of course you would just keep on believing... but the reality is that aren't these thoughts very intrusive? don't they feel heavy, in a way, like something is weighing on your mind, and just adding confusion? If you keep dwelling on them, you'll just become more entangled in them. It's really a lot like being entangled in a web, and the more you struggle with them directly, the more tangled you'll get. Rather, run from them, ignore them, and eventually with prayer you can have more clarity to return to the intellectual questions that are bothering you, but without all the confusion weighing down on you :) so see you are not trying to escape difficult questions, you are trying to find clarity in your mind first before thinking about them. It's like trying to wake up fully before thinking about a difficult subject, like calculus. It's hard to do calculus half asleep ;) hope my analogy makes sense.

 

God bless you :)

 

 

 

 

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

You might also be interested in reading about St Therese, because she had a great trial where she lost all feeling of faith, and it became only a blind sort of choice to her... she persevered though and is now a Saint :) she also had tuberculosis during the time so it must have been so difficult... have you read her book "Story of a Soul"? :)

Edited November 28, 2012 by MarysLittleFlower

[Kevin]

 

 

And in the afterlife, there is no time, so "trillions and trillions of years" is really a misnomer. We will simply "be" with God. I've always imagined it like an immense castle with countless rooms, intricate passages, towers, and caverns... surrounded by a city stretching as far as the eye can see... all to explore and enjoy like any of those brief moments in our lives that we wished could last forever -- and that wish comes true. If you haven't been in love, read some good love poetry. Even those who know they will die someday dare to speak of loving each other forever. That's a foretaste of heaven

 

 

 

Thank you for you responses. I would like to say that I found your answers totally compelling, but in a way, I it seems hard to take the Bible in only a metaphorical sense. God might have set the world into motion knowing life would evolve, but the Fall has to be something literal, as does the Covenant. But like I said, these are not really "questions" I have - I already know what the response is, I just worry that response might be wrong.

 

Also, I have actually read so much love poetry, and in a way, I've sickened of it. All I feel is, "I wonder how it would be to feel a positive emotion so intensely, because I sure don't."

 

And yes, I already was aware that it wasn't "trillions and trillions of years", as I said in the post, because that would be absurd. The "just being with God" is frightening to me. An absolute state of being without time, it seems to me very similar to the idea of not existing at all, just reversed, and it is the absoluteness that scares me.

 

@Mary

 

Thank you for your response. The problem is, if I knew how to not think about it, I wouldn't be here in the first place. Also, while I want to believe what you say, all religions would say "we know that our religion has been revealed and is fully true." I think Christianity is the right one if any are right, but the sometimes I am not sure if any actually are right.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Kevin

[MarysLittleFlower]

Just a comment about the fall... it's doctrine actually that Adam and Eve were real people and really fell, and that we all descend from them. My understanding is that we should not take this metaphorically. As for how this fits into science, I think scientists are trying to construct a theory based on what they saw, - it does not account for all they saw, much less for all that can be seen, and some things cannot be seen or found. Also remember that nature was affected by the fall so it's hard to talk about science and the Garden of Eden I think since - science deals with what can be observed and understood today.

[MarysLittleFlower]

"Thank you for your response. The problem is, if I knew how to not think about it, I wouldn't be here in the first place."

 

Well I think its all about what you choose...right when you get the thoughts, just direct your mind to something else like the Rosary, force your mind away from it. Much like we do with other things like temptations to anger, impure thoughts, jealousy, ETC.

 

"Also, while I want to believe what you say, all religions would say "we know that our religion has been revealed and is fully true." I think Christianity is the right one if any are right, but the sometimes I am not sure if any actually are right."

 

The difference with Christianity I think is that our religion has specific historical events to back it up... I mean, it's clear that Jesus Christ is a real person, He lived on earth, and then many of the disciples left Him during the Crucifixion but then somehow became more devoted to Him after His death... if He had not risen, why did they? The Bible says that many saw Him after He rose from the dead. While the Bible was written, these many were probably still alive and would have said something if it were not true. Also, some secular people complain about using the Bible in a way that gives is authority, but it's actually MORE reliable than other documents from the time. One reason is that it's from God, but since unbelievers would not agree, - there's something to maybe help them be more open to it: the Bible was written only a bit after Jesus' Resurrection and we have many early manuscripts. Other books during the time were written much later, sometimes hundreds of years after their events, and have much fewer manuscripts, yet they are completely accepted by the secular world. Why is that? If we assume the miraculous can't be true no matter what, we won't be open to evidence for it. The fact that the Bible deals with the miraculous does not disqualify it from being a true book, because there's nothing to suggest that miracles don't take place. It's only an assumption that people might have if they don't believe. So if we look at it without assumptions that it "cant' be true", we see it's actually more reliable than other documents :) as for the differences in the Gospels, etc, that shows different sides of the event, also on a more basic non theological level it shows the Apostles didn't just copy from each other.

 

Also, there are so many miracles that have happened during these 2000 years and still happen today. It's best to believe without need for evidence, but this can help if someone is struggling. For example, http://www.miraclerosarymission.org/lanciano.html  http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

 

But I think the best way to gain more faith is probably through prayer :) it's something that comes from God... we need to be made stronger through prayer first, then think about all these things carefully, with Him, prayerfully. This is just my understanding, but maybe you can see if it might work for you, or if not, I hope that you find something that does :)

 

God bless :)

[Kevin]

Mary, regardless of some of the things I disagree with you about, I agree that what I need to do is pray, and I am trying to do that more. Thank you for your kind response.