Community And Internet

[emmaberry101]

I wish I were a mod so I could close this topic before the posts hit the fan.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1353717686' post='2515457']
I was not calling you a heretic Nunsense. If my post read that way I apologize. However, using "diverisity" is a liberal phrase and for that you get labeled "liberal leaning" in my book. Sorry. Perhaps you are not even aware of just how liberal you sound in many of your post. Hey, if you can state I sound "Intolerant" than I'm stating you sound liberal, particuarly when you condemn Saints of the Church....anyhoo...moving along....

Back to the topic: Using the internet is not necessary in a cloister. Period. Who could these nuns possibly want to "email"? Honestly? I thought the point of the black pall covering the Carmelte when she professes her vows meant that she was "dead to the world" So why would she now "email" anyone? Does Christ have an email address that I am not aware of? This is ridiculous. Research on the internet? Research what? You can't plan ahead and write a letter the old fashion way? It was good enough for St. Teresa and all the other foundresses why is not good enough for us? Are we so prone to immediacy that we have lost all sense of patience? Give me a break.
[/quote]

Woah there. Come on, we are all writing in good faith. I don't think that tone is necessary. And remember the true meaning of diversity, isn't a bad thing. What certain people in the Church has made it is, but in reality it is beautiful. I mean look at how many lay movements, religious order, secular institutes, and spiritualities are all under the Holy See and truly faithful to her! The Holy Spirit is always moving and this is true diversity. So beautiful!

And my friend, we are not superior/founder of a cloister to make that call of what should be allow or not. God has given them the grace and discernment to choose this. But just a thought, the people a nun might want to email are the same ones she would right a letter to. What makes a letter more holy then an email? Also the order I was with, the contemplative (cloistered) branch has spiritual direction via Skype.

[ACS67]

Forgive my tone. But this topic should be a non issue. As for "holiness" of a letter versus an email.....with the internet you have all the trash that goes with it in advertisement, spam, etc. etc that often times cannot be avoided. Nothing holy about that....

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1353717686' post='2515457']
I was not calling you a heretic Nunsense. If my post read that way I apologize. However, using "diverisity" is a liberal phrase and for that you get labeled "liberal leaning" in my book. Sorry. Perhaps you are not even aware of just how liberal you sound in many of your post. Hey, if you can state I sound "Intolerant" than I'm stating you sound liberal, particuarly when you condemn Saints of the Church....anyhoo...moving along....

Back to the topic: Using the internet is not necessary in a cloister. Period. Who could these nuns possibly want to "email"? Honestly? I thought the point of the black pall covering the Carmelte when she professes her vows meant that she was "dead to the world" So why would she now "email" anyone? Does Christ have an email address that I am not aware of? This is ridiculous. Research on the internet? Research what? You can't plan ahead and write a letter the old fashion way? It was good enough for St. Teresa and all the other foundresses why is not good enough for us? Are we so prone to immediacy that we have lost all sense of patience? Give me a break.
[/quote]

Pardon me for changing the subject here a little but may I ask, are you currently discerning religious life or do you intend to go into a cloistered convent at any time in the foreseeable future? I ask this because I find it interesting when those who have no intention of actually living the life choose to tell those who do where they are going wrong and how they should live it.

Personally, I do intend to return to Carmel as soon as my visa is approved, and I will be giving the rest of my life to God in the cloister. Whether or not the community allows me to send an email to my sister or a snail mail letter should not label me 'liberal' (or my community either). I disagree with your views on the cloister, which to me is what I mean by 'diversity of opinion' that I am entitled to my opinion (as a future Carmelite nun myself) and you are entitled to yours (whether you become a cloistered nun or not). But I would probably have more respect for your views if I knew that you are actually going to live by them. There are several people on phatmass who ARE going to live in cloisters without email, and I totally respect their communities decision about that. And if this is what you are going to do too, then wonderful - but it it is still only your opinion and the name calling isn't necessary.

And the really funny thing about all this is that Wolverhampton doesn't currently allow email for the sisters anyway! The only conversation I had about this with the Prioress was when she said to me that perhaps we needed to re-evaluate the policy in view of the costs and time involved in snail mail. But I don't even have a vote in the community for the next 6 years!

The Holy Father has email as does the Vatican office. Can you honestly tell me that you know exactly what St Teresa (or Jesus) would do if they lived in today's world? I don't.

And how on earth did I condemn saints of the Church? If I choose to see them as fallible human beings (and they all were) then this is condemning them? Even the Pope does not claim infalliblity on all things - so how can the saints? Honestly, some of your words sound like cult-speak, where any differing opinion is automatically condemned without a hearing. This isn't to call you names but to point out that your arguments have become defensive and aggressive at the same time. And I am not really arguing one way or the other (I can live without email and have proven it over and over again) - but merely saying that we should not judge any community for doing so.

This is beginning to feel like an attack on me personally, as if you have some axe to grind or something that I don't know about. I am simply debating the topic, but you seem to be either taking it personally yourself (I certainly didn't intend to attack any beliefs of yours) or trying to make it personal against me. If you don't like me for some reason, that's fine, but maybe you could tone it down a little here - this is VS after all - we are supposed to be future religious here - or at least friendly to them!

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1353718642' post='2515475']
Forgive my tone. But this topic should be a non issue. As for "holiness" of a letter versus an email.....with the internet you have all the trash that goes with it in advertisement, spam, etc. etc that often times cannot be avoided. Nothing holy about that....
[/quote]

No problem I know it is easy it get passionate about our beliefs especially when they are so dear to our heart! I catch myself doing it too.

But you do make a good point about the spam.

On the personal side, when I was in the convent we had limited access to email. Our superior would print them out and on breaks we could respond (with permissions of course). I chose not to because I wanted to just be completely purified from my old life. It was easier for me to do that without email.

[ACS67]

Taking this to private message nunsense. I'll speak to you there.

I ask the forgiveness of all for derailing the thread. Mea culpa.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='emmaberry101' timestamp='1353718184' post='2515465']
I wish I were a mod so I could close this topic before the posts hit the fan.
[/quote]


Please report it to someone - I think we've reached a dead end here!

[jumpfrog]

I communicate with a mother at Regina Laudis, every so often for the past few years. This community does everything by letter, but after a few years, Mother sent me an email address, because one of her responses vanished in the mail, and she felt badly about it. I had just thought she hadn't responded to me!

Anyway, email is just the fastest, cheapest and most reliable iteration of communication tecnology, so I guess most communities take advantage of that. Cloistered nuns often have an extensive 'ministry' that happens through writing, and most people are so unfamiliar with postal mail that it would be very awkward for them to get together the time, paper, envelope, and postage to send a written request for prayers.

andI looove looking at community websites!

[somethingfishy]

In a world where the Pope tweets and the Vatican has a Youtube account, it's hardly shocking for a religious community to use email.

[mantellata]

Yikes I walk away from a topic to spend some quality time babysitting my niece and nephew and whoa... topic completely changed.

Just to clarify my own opinion (because I think it's been wrenched from what I intended) I would first point you to my original reply and then state (or restate as the case may be):

1. Nothing wrong with email... nothing wrong with social media... it is all in how you use it. (I'm a free-lance webdesigner)

2. I believe monasticism is perfectly consonant with email usage (I mentioned how I love that the Summit Dominicans use it because it saves them postage).

3. I see that a religious community may each have their valid reasons for limiting the use of technology - especially during the time of formation. (Please see my original reply) I base this on my own experience as a religious for several years. I never found this rule an imposition BUT I can also see how a "guiding principle" of leaving the proper use of email to the candidate could work for some communities (as in juchu's case).

4. My comment on sacrifice and austerity had to with responding to those on the other side of the spectrum who (like myself on the slightly addicted to email side) might look askance at a community who chooses to limit the use of email ([i]especially during formation) [/i]This attitude betrays a misdirected spirit upon entering into the question of discerning a community. I found it helpful to remind myself that I was after-all coming to give it all - surely a little email deprivation (as nunsense mentioned) should not be what concerns me.


Just to remind everyone that the original topic/question at hand is not that religious should use or not use the internet or use or not use social media - but the reason for or not for limited use of email (and even letter writing) in the first few years of formation.


**whew**

[mantellata]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1353717686' post='2515457']
Using the internet is not necessary in a cloister. Period. Who could these nuns possibly want to "email"?
[/quote]

Family mostly. I wasn't cloistered but I was out of country and it cost my community [b]a lot[/b] just to send Christmas cards to my family.... never mind the rest of the year. If you use email the same way you use a letter (time-wise etc...) there is really nothing different -- just that it is faster. Cloistered nuns do write family, potential candidates who enter, benefactors of the community, political candidates when they aren't upholding our religious freedom, spiritual directors, and yes... friends... who can be good and holy friends who write good and holy emails.

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1353717686' post='2515457']Research on the internet? Research what? [/quote]

Well clothing actually... socks, shoes.... gardening equipment. No need to leave the cloistered walls - and online shopping (as a nun or sister) is [u]way[/u] faster than having to go to the stores..... OH and you don't have to stand in line and try to figure out where to look so that you aren't accosted by the latest Cosmo or Tabloid.

Let's see.... as a religious I read Vatican documents online... saved on paper.... read academic articles (of the Theological, ethical or ecclesiological... variety) as a religious with an apostolate I certainly made use of the internet for related research.... I know that the Summit Dominicans learned how to make their soap online.... and that is one of their main works that financially supports the monastery.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='somethingfishy' timestamp='1353723835' post='2515519']
In a world where the Pope tweets and the Vatican has a Youtube account, it's hardly shocking for a religious community to use email.
[/quote]

This thread amuses me because the Jews have always used Jewish Law in much the same way the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution -- adapting within accepted parameters. There are methods of interpretation which adhere to certain "rules of the game" laid down millennia ago, and in fact there is an actual institute which develops technology for new situations which arise. For example, lighting a fire is forbidden on the Sabbath, and that has been interpreted to mean one cannot switch on an item which uses electricity. [I'm not going to go into the technical details behind this]. However, in some instances, the use of the telephone is essential -- for example, in a hospital when a doctor must have immediate access to the results of a lab test he's ordered, for the patient's benefit. Special telephones have been developed which avoid the use of the "electrical spark" which is the modern equivalent of the forbidden fire-lighting. There are Sabbath elevators [which automatically stop at each floor without any human activity] which allow observant Jews to live in hi-rise buildings without having to climb up and down hundreds [if not thousands] of steps on Shabbat, etc.

What, in essence, would be the difference between a community which allows its sisters to write letters once a month or every few months, and the sending of emails at the same interval? As has been pointed out, it might even be more economical, and therefore more in keeping with the vow of poverty. However, one does not expect a sister to surf the net for porn sites, just as one would not expect her to have a private collection of photos of the Chippendales.

To me, it's really a non-issue.

[emmaberry101]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1353750821' post='2515883']
What, in essence, would be the difference between a community which allows its sisters to write letters once a month or every few months, and the sending of emails at the same interval? As has been pointed out, it might even be more economical, and therefore more in keeping with the vow of poverty. However, one does not expect a sister to surf the net for porn sites, just as one would not expect her to have a private collection of photos of the Chippendales.

To me, it's really a non-issue.
[/quote]

In doing research on good and holy things (Hour of Sext in the LotH, anyone?) I have come across some very lewd things and praised God that I would not be subject to similar images, however accidental, in Roswell.

Most communities today use the internet, so I am not saying that the risk of seeing something lewd means that no one should use the net. Far from it! It really needs to be seriously looked at by each community.

I know you specifically asked about the difference between email and letters, Antigonos, but I have seen lewd (that's the last time I am saying that word, promise!) things in the advertisements of my email as well. (Aol to be specific.)

You are completely right though, that if a community is using too many of its funds for postage and stationary, then email may well be worth the risk of any obscene (told ya!) adverts that may appear. We may be having problems here because it seems that most of us are outright opposing the stance opposite to our personal opinion. Unfortunately, there are pros and cons for each side and these will vary from community to community, so while the truth of the matter remains objective (that the religious need not be occupied with unnecessary things, that she should keep to her poverty), the application of this truth is subjective. Each community's list of pros and cons for snail mail vs email vs whatever will differ.

As mantellata stated, for many communities the internet is an alternative to standing in line for groceries and having to see crude images and phrases on magazines.

[AccountDeleted]

I have found that I can avoid all spam and lewd things in my email by 1) never using my real email address on the Internet (especially when registering or signing up for anything) -but using a temporary webmail adderss; and 2) setting my spam fiddler to high. I don't get any spam these days in my mailbox and never anything lewd. Keeping one's email address confidential and only giving it to people you actually want to hear from is important.

And the way to avoid going to lewd Internet websites is to set the security level high and to use a content fiddler.

These simple steps can prevent one from seeing or receiving unwanted material online.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1353750821' post='2515883']

This thread amuses me because the Jews have always used Jewish Law in much the same way the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution -- adapting within accepted parameters. There are methods of interpretation which adhere to certain "rules of the game" laid down millennia ago, and in fact there is an actual institute which develops technology for new situations which arise. For example, lighting a fire is forbidden on the Sabbath, and that has been interpreted to mean one cannot switch on an item which uses electricity. [I'm not going to go into the technical details behind this]. However, in some instances, the use of the telephone is essential -- for example, in a hospital when a doctor must have immediate access to the results of a lab test he's ordered, for the patient's benefit. Special telephones have been developed which avoid the use of the "electrical spark" which is the modern equivalent of the forbidden fire-lighting. There are Sabbath elevators [which automatically stop at each floor without any human activity] which allow observant Jews to live in hi-rise buildings without having to climb up and down hundreds [if not thousands] of steps on Shabbat, etc.

What, in essence, would be the difference between a community which allows its sisters to write letters once a month or every few months, and the sending of emails at the same interval? As has been pointed out, it might even be more economical, and therefore more in keeping with the vow of poverty. However, one does not expect a sister to surf the net for porn sites, just as one would not expect her to have a private collection of photos of the Chippendales.

To me, it's really a non-issue.
[/quote]


Does this mean I have to give up my private photo collection of the Chippendales?