St. Emma's, Greensburg, Pa (benedictine): Whaddaya Know?

[Cherie]

[quote name='ImageTrinity' timestamp='1353360897' post='2513127']
They only thing I can think of is that the Benedictine Rule specifically instructs communities to discourage inquirers in order to test the sincerity of the vocation.
[/quote]

That MUST be it! I didn't realize the Rule expressed that. When my mother in law speaks to them on the phone they sound so sweet, it just seemed like that kind of "rude" response from them would be so uncharacteristic!

[nikita92]

From the looks of the newsletter and the rest of the website...I would submit the idea of the sisters raising the age level from 38 to at least consider 50. Sorry jumpfrog about your negative experiance with them. When I checked them out...my perspective was the sisters seem to all be older/mature. I dont know how comfortable they actually are about allowing younger women to discern with them.They all look like friendly sisters. I just cant picture 18 year olds wanting to discern if the community doesnt have others of the same generational age group. This is strickly my sole perspective. I am the first one to admit that I know very little and could be totally wrong in this. However...I couldnt see the RANGE. Of course, that doesnt mean they dont have assorted age levels. I APOLOGISE if I have offended anyone.

[ImageTrinity]

Cherie,
I believe the Rule says something about making potential vocations wait at the gates of the monastery for 3 days before they are even acknowledged!

[nikita92]

So does that mean...The squeaky wheel get's the grease? (As the saying goes.) I dont understand...If a inquirer was told "NO" why would that person keep trying? I wouldnt want to come off as a pest so to speak and risk upseting them. I know persistence can pay off...but really?
Is being employed a factor in whether a community seriously considers a aspirant? Especially in these times of high unemployment...I wouldnt think that this would be a major CHECKBOX if one would have what it takes or not.

[nikita92]

DameAgnes- What would the BS consist of. Just curious....

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='nikita92' timestamp='1353371218' post='2513276']
Is being employed a factor in whether a community seriously considers a aspirant? Especially in these times of high unemployment...I wouldnt think that this would be a major CHECKBOX if one would have what it takes or not.
[/quote]

You would think it wouldn't be especially since I was going to school at the time. I was very upset with them for using this as a factor as no other community has told me this would pose a problem. With the countries levels of unemployment, it's not right. I am currently a full-time student and I have a lot on my plate. I also do not have my own transportation since my car broke down this summer and it's almost $1,000 to have it fixed. My situation precludes me from job searching at this time. If I were able, I'd look into Federal Work Study but that is simply not an option at this time due to the fact that my college is too far away from me (over 5 miles). I'm an online student for this reason. I know it wasn't like this last year but things change.

Edited November 20, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae

[Gabriela]

I did not know that the Rule of St. Benedict encourages communities to discourage vocations. That explains a lot of what I'm seeing in Benedictine communities. I really need to read that rule already...

As a former convert to Judaism, I have to say this puts me out quite a bit. In Judaism, the law is to turn a potential convert away three times (kinda' like St. Benedict's three days) before finally accepting him/her for conversion. That was really hurtful, and I hardly saw the point in it. I mean, I can see how it's a "test" for people who are just randomly seeking and get the wild idea in their head to try out this, that, and the other thing, but such a person would never persevere through the conversion process to the end, anyway. In my experience with another Benedictine monastery (and some stories I've heard), this really creates the feeling of religious life being an elite club.

Has anyone else had this experience with this or other monasteries? I mean, do you ever get the feeling like it's an "in" thing that can feel "cliquish" and "exclusive" to outsiders?

I really didn't get this impression among Franciscans...

[emmaberry101]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1353396424' post='2513546']
I did not know that the Rule of St. Benedict encourages communities to discourage vocations. That explains a lot of what I'm seeing in Benedictine communities. I really need to read that rule already...

As a former convert to Judaism, I have to say this puts me out quite a bit. In Judaism, the law is to turn a potential convert away three times (kinda' like St. Benedict's three days) before finally accepting him/her for conversion. That was really hurtful, and I hardly saw the point in it. I mean, I can see how it's a "test" for people who are just randomly seeking and get the wild idea in their head to try out this, that, and the other thing, but such a person would never persevere through the conversion process to the end, anyway. In my experience with another Benedictine monastery (and some stories I've heard), this really creates the feeling of religious life being an elite club.

Has anyone else had this experience with this or other monasteries? I mean, do you ever get the feeling like it's an "in" thing that can feel "cliquish" and "exclusive" to outsiders?

I really didn't get this impression among Franciscans...
[/quote]

This can happen with communities of any charism, and it is generally not a good sign if you feel this from the get-go. Of course, prudence is key. Most cloisters (including Benedictine cloisters!) will feel somewhat exclusive because of the obvious aspect of separation. Also, nuns are enclosed in the womb of the Church and so the Superior of cloisters is often very protective of her 'sheep'/daughters inside the cloister. This should not be excessive though, and if it is I would look elsewhere. As someone once said, "The cloister is the last place where cliques need to be forming!"

It is already such a white hot environment (St Therese gritting her teeth at the clanging rosary, anyone?) even without cliques! Hope I did not confuse you further curiousing.

And Benedictines are great! Perhaps they are talked about less here on VS because Hollywood has given them so much air-time? Just playing-I honestly could not say why that is. I would assume it is a more rare vocation, but I think the numbers disprove this.

[jumpfrog]

Well, I was a bit surprised by the response, but it was a few years ago, so any sting is long gone!

I am aware of the traditional "discouragement" in the Rule, but the response given to me was quite unmistakable. I did email them back briefly, and I joked a little about feeling that this was perhaps a case of being put off as per the Rule. I got no answer to that. Maybe they had had a bad experience with a Canadian in the past?

Anyway, I didn't know they were connected to the Virginia Dale Abbey, which I have also contacted via email, and who were very warm and open.

I guess in the past, you could pester a monastery for admittance, but nowadays that behavior would not be acceptable; now no tends to mean [b]no[/b], and to insist after that would be a sign of a personality disorder...so I think communities must modify the Rule's idea of rejecting candidates until they persist.

[jumpfrog]

double post argh

Edited November 20, 2012 by jumpfrog

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='jumpfrog' timestamp='1353401007' post='2513567']
Well, I was a bit surprised by the response, but it was a few years ago, so any sting is long gone!

I am aware of the traditional "discouragement" in the Rule, but the response given to me was quite unmistakable. I did email them back briefly, and I joked a little about feeling that this was perhaps a case of being put off as per the Rule. I got no answer to that. Maybe they had had a bad experience with a Canadian in the past?

Anyway, I didn't know they were connected to the Virginia Dale Abbey, which I have also contacted via email, and who were very warm and open.

[b]I guess in the past, you could pester a monastery for admittance, but nowadays that behavior would not be acceptable; now no tends to mean no, and to insist after that would be a sign of a personality disorder...so I think communities must modify the Rule's idea of rejecting candidates until they persist.[/b]
[/quote]

This is a good point. I had a friend who had a very difficult time letting go after a community told her she would not be accepted. She wanted to ask numerous questions and I told her that she needed to be cautious because they could have contact with other communities and the word may spread. She took the separation VERY hard but finally got over it. She then started discerning with a Carmelite monastery. I think part of her problem was that she was very new to discernment and didn't understand that the discernment process is three-fold between God, you, and the order.

[ImageTrinity]

Jumpfrog,
I doubt very much that any community will tell you "no" and give a legitimate reason for denying you as a test. I think you are right sometimes no means no as hard as that is to hear.
The Benedictine brothers, who I know far better, often "test" candidates by asking them to finish college (if they are young) or go on a year of mission work. A very dear friend was sent overseas (the monastery paid for most of the trip) before he entered because the Abbot felt he needed a year to mature.

Curiousing,
I know it can seem elitist, but think of it this way. Most cloistered/contemplative communities are extremely small and family oriented. Every time they admit a new member, their family expands, and if that person leaves, they are heartbroken. Unlike larger communities, every Sister gets to know a new postulant extremely well. They make entrance tough to spare the community and the applicant some of the pain if her vocation is somewhere else.

[mantellata]

I would also find it odd to say no and expect a yes in this day and age. Many communities I know would take that kind of reaction as a lack of docility and proof that the person had no vocation what-so-ever.

I think communities who consider "over-questioning" as a red-flag on a discerner do so over questions that show a lack of flexibility -- a state of mind where every single detail must be vetted before joining. This person may have such a need for personal control that they would have a hard time getting along in community. Note I mentioned "over-questioning" not questions in general. I would consider it a red-flag on the community itself if simply asking normal every day questions - or even those that are attempts to alleviate anxiety for the young and inexperienced were a problem. A good and faithful community knows what good and faithful dialogue is without taking it as a personal slight against trusting the community to be competent.

Sometimes I also noticed that some young women would be not asking their own questions but those of their parents. There is a difference in the young woman who requests for assistance in explaining something to help her parents understand and one who asks their questions and anxieties as her own because her parents told her to do so. This is not a sign that a person may not have a vocation, but perhaps needs some more time to mature. This may also be something that can be resolved in community. Really - these issues need to be addressed on a individual by individual basis. *end soapbox*

[nikita92]

Warning-taking my turn on the soap box. First- Curiousing- I too have entertained the thought of Eliteness being attached to religious life. Besides the possible difficulty one might be experiancing trying to enter say a possible unreceptive community, it has been described as a "Higher calling" which a true calling of this nature..Eliteness just seems to fit. I recalled seeing that word before on VS..I back tracked and found it. Under the subject "Cant find list of possible signs of issues in a Regligious community" look at the bottom for Ignatiusofloyola's post Nov 16. Click on underlined "full article" Second list #3 "Eliteness" Now...Meaning no disrespect to St. Emma's, while reading others posts and the words "older community" and viewing their pictures, from my perspective...that exact word "cliquish" popped in my thoughts. (taking into consideration, protecting of what they have built together as a community and the time,effort and energy and heart that each has contributed) Moving on... I would like to comment what Mantellata wrote about "Questioning" My perspective differs. What is the basis for "Fear"? It is "Not knowing" that drives it. Which, also includes the componet of "Personal Control" one cant control,what they do not know. It leads to feeling insecure,scared,uncertain. The more one asks questions, the better they feel to make informed decisions. I dont see where a person is lacking "flexibility" by asking alot of questions. If I am to be dedicating my life to living in a community, "over questioning" shouldnt be a factor in judging my character. Flexibility is a major aspect and that should be a given. Of course it is not possible to know all there is to learn prior to entering..it needs to be experianced. Mantellata made a great observation of who could really be doing the questioning. Parents or the discerner. I can also understand if the discerner is repeating the same questions or just not getting it. Researching ahead of time is key. I am guility of having asked another member on here a couple of silly questions, that I suppose would raised the eyebrow(s) of mother Superior. Thank you and I'm stepping off now. (-; SORRY ABOUT HIJACK

[mantellata]

I think we actually agree Nakita.... lots of questions is one thing, silly questions very often there are not (formation is about learning after all) ... I'm speaking to the person who has an almost obsessive desire to know every little detail about the most mundane things. One meets all sorts.