Does Anybody Kneel When They

[Moosey]

I dont do it but its still a great thing to do. Its a way of showing how much respect you have for the Eucharist.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote]Okay, hi, new convert here.

Not impressed at all the way people are acting on this thread. You're acting like Baptists debating whether it is sinful to drink or not. Not funny.

I did the reading for myself. The reception of communion either way is fine, and there is no cause to get our knickers in a twist if someone prefers to kneel or stand, despite what we think. However, standing seems preferable. EITHER WAY- this should not cause division among the body of Christ.

Go to your corners and cool off, then come back and give each other a hug, a holy kiss, and go around and tell everyone in the room you love them.
[/quote]

HAHAHA. I guess the difference is that the baptists were arguing over wine. We're arguing over the Body and Blood of our Savior. I don't know if that speaks ill or well of us, but it shows how important the Eucharist is.

Apologies, Bro. Adam, if I have scandalized you. God bless you.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='May 23 2004, 03:18 PM']
HAHAHA. I guess the difference is that the baptists were arguing over wine. We're arguing over the Body and Blood of our Savior. I don't know if that speaks ill or well of us, but it shows how important the Eucharist is.

Apologies, Bro. Adam, if I have scandalized you. God bless you. [/quote]
But see, no one is arguing the great value of the Eucharist or IF one SHOULD show respect... you are arguing over HOW one should show respect. I agree that if the bishops say stand, then stand. If the bishops have allowed some parishes to all kneel, then when in Rome... If the bishops have allowed people (without a prideful attitude) to kneel, then let them kneel and don't worry about it. Why do we have to argue about these things? You have no idea how damaging a witness this is to those who might be looking into Catholicism... sometimes these things seem more about the parishoners and have nothing to do with worship.

<hops off the soapbox>

Please don't throw things at me...

[Brother Adam]

You are not arguing if communion is symbolic or not. You are arguing if one persons form or sincere reverance is okay or not.

[Livin_the_MASS]

This is NOT about which position is better. It is about that both are permitted and neither of them are to be looked down upon in any way.

If you stand AND bow that is fine

If you kneel that is fine both are permitted (see the new norms.)

My point is that [b]neither one[/b] should not be looked down upon, the reason why the focus is on kneeling is because this is where most have a problem.

Brother Adam, I agree this should not divide the body of Christ.

homeschoolmom, I agree not the best show cases here.

But it needs to be said and ALL SOULS have the right to know that they can stand and bow OR kneel at Holy Communion and they are STILL being obedient to Holy Mother Church.

It seems to keep getting over looked that one of the letters sent to the U.S. Bishops by Mons. Mario Marini stated that: our norm was only permitted in the U.S. under the notion that those who choose to kneel are not to [b]"be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion."[/b]

Please when reading a thread look at all the information, it has been given over and over in this thread.


Much Love Pham
Pax
Jason

[Rebirth flame]

lol, Irish, i wonder if u knew this would happen when you started this thread...

oh yeah, with my questions, i got them answered in the Q&A forum...
so if anybody was wondering the answer to my question, or had the same question, you can read the answer here...

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=12577"]Genuflecting before recieving the Eucharist[/url]

[i][b]i think that the answer would apply to the conversation in this thread too, so i recommend that you all read it![/b][/i]

take care, and God Bless you all!!!
~nate

[Livin_the_MASS]

I suggest reading this just to get ALL the facts!



[quote][b]POSTURE AT COMMUNION


One of the most controversial American adaptations concerned the posture of the faithful when receiving Communion. Traditional practice allowed for communicants to receive either kneeling or standing. If they received Communion standing, they should show another sign of reverence for Christ in the Eucharist. The new GIRM specified the following:

“The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm. When receiving Holy Communion, the communicant bows his or her head before the Sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the body of the Lord from the minister” (160).

[u]When the U.S. bishops proposed this adaptation, the Holy See insisted on the provision that the faithful who choose to kneel not be denied Communion.[/u] Following the release of the old GIRM, many faithful who chose to kneel were denied Communion or otherwise harassed regarding the practice, and Rome received numerous complaints.

[u]In response the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments published in the November-December 2002 issue of its official journal, Notitiae, a notification that it “considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their pastors by means of the Sacraments.”[/u]

The CDWDS further stipulated that “there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared.”

[u]Finally, the notice declared that “priests should understand that the congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse” [/u](letter of Jorge Cardinal Medina Estévez, July 1, 2002 [Prot. n. 1322/02/L]).[/b][/quote]


[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/liturgy/cag_changes.asp"]LINK[/url]

[PedroX]

stole this from Blazer, cause I think he's cool.

peace...

[quote]I want to make it perfectly clear that you are NOT disobedient if you genuflect or kneel. Cardinal Arinze made that very clear in response to a dubium about this very question. If you genuflect before you receive, or kneel to receive, you are not being disobedient. However, I think it would be important for you to read and take to heart what Bishop Chaput says in his explanation to the Diocese of Denver. I have bolded the part that refers speficially to your question:


QUOTE 
 
Liturgy Series Part 16
Bond between members of Body of Christ supernatural reality
February 5 , 2003
Denver Catholic Register
 
 


As they ready themselves to receive holy Communion, the faithful, who have remained in their places during the earlier portion of the Eucharist, now move forward in procession to the table of the Lord.

Even this gesture has significance for the people of God. We walk together in unity toward the heavenly banquet. This helps us to recall that we're living a journey — a journey together because we share in the gift of baptism — toward the heavenly Jerusalem. This is our moment to be nourished by the divine life of the Son who has said, "Do this in memory of me." His flesh and blood are food and drink for us.

As members of the body of Christ, we are linked together more strongly than in any other relationship, because our faith is a supernatural reality. So we approach God's altar in awe, and often while singing. Singing together with one voice both deepens and signifies our unity.

Our demeanor should reflect this privileged moment. Did we prepare our hearts before Mass for the encounter that takes place in the celebration of the Eucharist? If so, it should be obvious to ourselves and others. For example, we should choose appropriate clothes to come before the Lord. We should fast from food (including gum) or drink (not medicine or water, though) for an hour before Mass. If we plan to receive holy Communion in the hand, our hands should be clean.

At this most personal moment of the Mass am I thoughtful of those around me as we move together? Our unspoken manner conveys volumes about our understanding of the reception of holy Communion.

Our gestures should reflect the union we have with every other person in the Communion procession. The 1974 set of rubrics noted that we should make "some kind " of gesture of reverence before receiving the body of Christ. As we approach the minister of holy Communion and the precious body is offered to us, he or she will say "body of Christ", nothing more. No names, no titles. Our response is "Amen," a profession of our faith.

In the revised General Instruction on the Roman Missal, the Holy See indicated that uniformity of gesture should be respected at this time in a specific way. The specific gesture was to be determined by the appropriate conference of bishops, and this has been done in the United States.

The bishops have determined that we should not kneel or genuflect. We receive Communion standing. Before receiving, we bow our head in adoration, and we say "Amen" and receive the body of Christ on the tongue or in the hand.

This will be new for many of the faithful, because the formal act of reverence was not widely promoted in the past. This act helps us avoid nonchalance in receiving holy Communion. It allows us to acknowledge what we are about to do: take under the form of bread and wine the resurrected body and blood of Christ. If we have become distracted during the procession, the gesture helps us to recollect ourselves.

While the act of reverence will be new for some, it may be "different" for others. In the past, we may have made a sign of the cross, a profound bow (one from the waist), genuflected or simply knelt as our act of adoration. The Church now asks us asks to submit our personal preference to her wisdom.

Some of us will need time to remember to do this. Others may not want to change the gesture of reverence they've been using. In all cases, we need to defer to the Church. Just as I ask that kneeling be preserved within the rubrics where indicated (such as during the entire Eucharistic Prayer), I ask that the act of reverence approved by the U.S. bishops — the bowing of the head — be embraced and maintained. This act of reverence, which should also be done before receiving the precious blood, unites us with the whole community of faith.

[/quote]

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote][b]The bishops have determined that we should not kneel or genuflect.[/b] We receive Communion standing. Before receiving, we bow our head in adoration, and we say "Amen" and receive the body of Christ on the tongue or in the hand. [/quote]

[quote][b]When the U.S. bishops proposed this adaptation, [u]the Holy See insisted on the provision that the faithful who choose to kneel not be denied Communion.[/u][/b][/quote]


[quote]Finally, the notice declared that [b]“priests should understand that the congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse”[/b] (letter of Jorge Cardinal Medina Estévez, July 1, 2002 [Prot. n. 1322/02/L]).[/quote]

[Rebirth flame]

so the vibe that i'm gettin is basically this:

it is reccomended that, when in America, you recieve standing up with a bow of the head before recieving ::HOWEVER::, should you choose another method, you will not be told you can't recieve the Eucharist.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[b]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/b]
On certain matters to be observed or to be avoided
regarding the Most Holy Eucharist


[quote][b][91.] In distributing Holy Communion it is to be remembered that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who seek them in a reasonable manner, are rightly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them”.[177] Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. [u]Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.[/u][/b][/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

Blazer is [i]always[/i] cool!