cmotherofpirl Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 The bishops have asked you to stand. That should be reason enough to obey. If you cannot do what you have been asked to do , then why should anybody else have to? Why do you expect the priests to do what they are asked, if you cannot? Why do you expect the bishops to do what they are asked if you cannot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='May 23 2004, 11:52 AM'] The bishops have asked you to stand. That should be reason enough to obey. If you cannot do what you have been asked to do , then why should anybody else have to? Why do you expect the priests to do what they are asked, if you cannot? Why do you expect the bishops to do what they are asked if you cannot? [/quote] What are you talking about ROME has spoken! Your post is full of judgements You are over looking the letters from ROME. The [b]Magisterium[/b] has spoken, You can stand and bow OR you can kneel. The only reason the GIRM for standing was allowed is because it was to be understood that those who kneel are not to be denied nor called disobeident! Facts are Facts not personal opinions! Read the link I gave, read the new norms of the Church. This is rather tiring No pointing fingures, Mother Church says so Plus you keep giving only part of the information. Souls are entitled to get [b]ALL[/b] the facts Pax Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [quote name='immaculata' date='May 22 2004, 07:46 PM'] I've seen some people kneel when I was at a retreat at Marytown... I used to genuflect before receiving, but after the GIRM specified not to, I obeyed. [/quote] hi, ummm... i have a question. i realize this may stray a little off the course that this thread is heading, but i need to know the "answer". k, i've just recently over the past few months begun diving into my Faith. For me, when i recieve Communion, i genuflect, then stand up and recieve. But according to GIRM, that's incorrect (which i only just now found out while reading this thread). so, my questions are: 1. What is GIRM? i've not heard of it (though there are many things i am unaware of). 2. Why exactly did GIRM state that genuflecting and then recieving the Eucharist is bad? or, like, if you happen to know where the document is online (assuming it is a document), could you please provide a link to it? thank you guys soooo much!!! i'm just tryin to go alil' deeper here... i appreciate it! God Bless!!! ~nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [quote]The Bishops have asked us to stand. [/quote] Cmom, I sympathize with this sentiment, but I think it is based on faulty premises. The directive to stand comes from the GIRM, the General Instruction for the Roman Missal. These are the rubrics for the Novus Ordo. Of course, we have a canonical obligation to obey our bishop. We do not however have a canonical obligation to obey [b]the bishops[/b], except when they, with one accord, in communion with Tradition and the Holy See, they speak on matters of Faith and Morals. The Council of Bishops is not an infallible body. I'm not saying we should just ignore the directive. I personally stand except when an exception is made by the [b]local ordinary[/b]. The local ordinary can grant an indult to say the Latin Mass, in which case one MUST kneel unless incapable of doing so. The local ordinary can also allow the Anglican Use, which is a similar circumstance. I think, also, the local ordinary can make an exception even for the Novus Ordo. A preference for kneeling isn't necessarily disobedience. It is merely a preference. Just because I stand for communion, doesn't mean I have to like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='May 22 2004, 08:06 PM'][url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=12136"]Posture at Holy Communion[/url]. This is something I typed up a while back, should help In their Hearts Jason[/quote] Click on this link above it has three letters from Rome for those who have the right to kneel. Plus it has the NEW NORMS of the Church to be followed. Here is a link o from the U.S. Catholic Bishops on the new norms! [url="http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/documents/instructioneng.htm"]Redemptionis Sacramentum from the U.S. Catholic Bishops[/url] I will paste this from that link: [quote][b]90. “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined,” with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms.”176 91. In distributing Holy Communion it is to be remembered that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who seek them in a reasonable manner, are rightly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them.”177 Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.[/b][/quote] Here is the [url="http://www.usccb.org:8765/query.html?col=&qt=GIRM"]GIRM[/url]. Remember Developement Of Doctrine The New Norms are to be followed immediately! God Bless You Pax Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 ok, i googled "General Instruction for the Roman Missal" and i found the document. i also found the part where they say: [quote]If, however, the tabernacle with the Most Blessed Sacrament is present in the sanctuary, the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers genuflect when they approach the altar and when they depart from it, but not during the celebration of Mass itself. Otherwise all who pass before the Most Blessed Sacrament genuflect, unless they are moving in procession.[/quote] so i guess i'm confused... why shouldn't people genuflect when in procession? is there a specific reason? again, thanx so much for any help! ~nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 CultureWarrior when I say the Bishops I do mean the GIRM. I am glad you understand what I mean. Jason you are missing the point which CW points out ( far better than I can) "Of course, we have a canonical obligation to obey our bishop" If we can ignor the GIRM, so can all the priests and bishops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I will not debate this! The statements are TOO CLEAR! And the word "ignore" is not used correctly. No one is "igonring" anything. We have the RIGHT to choose. Reverance I like it, and God deserves it! You can do it with a reverant bow or kneel. I have given all information on the matter, please research. God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 ok, i'm sorry to keep butting in like an annoying little gnat, (annoying little gnat, i like that! ) but if anybody knows why the GIRM said it was "innapropriate" to genuflect before recieving the Eucharist, could they please enlighten my utterly confused mind? i'm just lookin to change if it's something bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [quote][b]Cmom says:[/b] If we can ignor the GIRM, so can all the priests and bishops.[/quote] Just to clarify this point, priests and bishops (as all lay people) are under the authority of Rome the Magisterium. Like Anna has pointed out before--- that numerous letters have been sent to the U.S. Bishops on this issue from the Magisterium! Rome says that we have the choice to kneel and those who do so are not to [b]"be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion."[/b] quote from Mons. Mario Marini. Thier is a hierarchy you know. I love the One Catholic Church Christ founded. All the way Pax Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 When my bishop says we no longer have to pay attention to the rules of the Church, I'll let you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='May 23 2004, 01:31 PM'] When my bishop says we no longer have to pay attention to the rules of the Church, I'll let you know... [/quote] Don't put words in my mouth please Not nice. I'm sorry you seem to be having an issue with this, but you do I don't know why? You like to over look the facts. Then turn it around and make it look bad *shakes head* [quote][b]Quote from Anna:[/b] [b]There is nothing disobedient about it. The Magisterium has written to the US bishops now several times about it.It's those bishops, priests, deacons, and lay ministers who try to make the communicant feel as though he/she is being disobedient, who are actually the disobedient ones![/b][/quote] I love you Anna :wub: Anyway God Bless you Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 (edited) W W Edited May 23, 2004 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I am not putting words in your mouth, I am pointing out that it is better to follow what the church has asked us to do at Mass, than follow our personal choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Okay, hi, new convert here. Not impressed at all the way people are acting on this thread. You're acting like Baptists debating whether it is sinful to drink or not. Not funny. I did the reading for myself. The reception of communion either way is fine, and there is no cause to get our knickers in a twist if someone prefers to kneel or stand, despite what we think. However, standing seems preferable. EITHER WAY- this should not cause division among the body of Christ. Go to your corners and cool off, then come back and give each other a hug, a holy kiss, and go around and tell everyone in the room you love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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