What The Floopy?!

[An Historian]

Australian? Deo gratias! Then the forum is not destitute of imperial civilisation!

It is a very sad affair. But I would counsel against contacting the EMHC. If this was in a diocesan parish church and Joe McJoey was communicating non-Catholics-even accidentally!-you still speak with the pastor about the situation rather than the EMHC. Which should also be stressed: it should always be the pastor of the church that is contacted first and the celebrant is not always the pastor. If Fr So-and-so can say Mass on any given day but Fr Such-and-such is still the parish authority you contact.

Are they all Benedictines? I'm not sure if that makes it easier or more complicated. The same principle applies: you go through different channels for a religious. They are for the most part completely independent of the bishop.

I pray that the matter is resolved as quickly as possible!

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='An Historian' timestamp='1353209550' post='2512155']
Australian? Deo gratias! Then the forum is not destitute of imperial civilisation!

It is a very sad affair. But I would counsel against contacting the EMHC. If this was in a diocesan parish church and Joe McJoey was communicating non-Catholics-even accidentally!-you still speak with the pastor about the situation rather than the EMHC. Which should also be stressed: it should always be the pastor of the church that is contacted first and the celebrant is not always the pastor. If Fr So-and-so can say Mass on any given day but Fr Such-and-such is still the parish authority you contact.

Are they all Benedictines? I'm not sure if that makes it easier or more complicated. The same principle applies: you go through different channels for a religious. They are for the most part completely independent of the bishop.

I pray that the matter is resolved as quickly as possible!
[/quote]


Thanks for your prayers. Contacting the pastor may be difficult as there does not seem to be one for this chapel. The monks aren't around on my campus (my campus is for women, and they occupy the men's campus), so it can be difficult to get a hold of them in person. They often dash off after Mass too, so there's no real chance of speaking with them. I had the thought earlier: if I can't get in contact or resolve the issue with the celebrant of today's Mass, I am making an effort to go to Reconciliation within the next month - maybe I could speak to the priest then. It may not be appropriate (and doesn't seem like the best way to me), but I know that it will be a definite time when I will be in contact with a priest.

They are all Benedictines. I am more familiar with the Sisters as they live nearby. They're a lovely community, but from what I can tell they are very interested in change and progression (even ones not sanctioned by the Church).

[An Historian]

I wouldn't bring it up in the confessional. Your confessor can't hardly then run off to his superior and inform him can? Or one should hope not!

If there's a rotating group of priests celebrating and you cannot find any officially named pastor then simply contact the male superior with your concern. Have you checked websites, etc., such as the university's for names of the priests that celebrate Mass on your compus? You may find the information you need there.

It is certainly a complicated matter to be about! There's also so many legalties surrounding it that you may wish to pull your hair out. But don't give up. It's a worthy undertaking, persevere!

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='An Historian' timestamp='1353211059' post='2512186']
I wouldn't bring it up in the confessional. Your confessor can't hardly then run off to his superior and inform him can? Or one should hope not!

If there's a rotating group of priests celebrating and you cannot find any officially named pastor then simply contact the male superior with your concern. Have you checked websites, etc., such as the university's for names of the priests that celebrate Mass on your compus? You may find the information you need there.

It is certainly a complicated matter to be about! There's also so many legalties surrounding it that you may wish to pull your hair out. But don't give up. It's a worthy undertaking, persevere!
[/quote]

Right. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that I would ask the confessor to take the matter into his own hands, I meant for it as a potential opportunity to ask for advice on where to take things myself within the community

I am about to do it. I have the celebrant's name, so that may make things easier.

Thank you. I hope to, as I really feel that what happened was very unfortunate and problematic. Just need to work on being more assertive.

[An Historian]

Admittedly that makes more sense!

By all means consult with a confessor as well. I wouldn't beat yourself up about not doing any thing at the time either. In my view maintaing your silence was the best course of action. You have no fault in the affair especially since you are taking the appropriate action. Perhaps take this opportunity to spend a little more time with Our Lord in the Tabernacle? Try find a few minutes a day to just pop in and keep Him company? He faces so many abuses and sacrileges in the Most Holy Eucharist every day and it is not always within our authority to put an end to them. But it certainly is our place to try that little bit extra to satisfy for them and comfort Him in His sorrow.

You're on the right track. Keep to it!

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='An Historian' timestamp='1353212851' post='2512207']
Admittedly that makes more sense!

By all means consult with a confessor as well. I wouldn't beat yourself up about not doing any thing at the time either. In my view maintaing your silence was the best course of action. You have no fault in the affair especially since you are taking the appropriate action. Perhaps take this opportunity to spend a little more time with Our Lord in the Tabernacle? Try find a few minutes a day to just pop in and keep Him company? He faces so many abuses and sacrileges in the Most Holy Eucharist every day and it is not always within our authority to put an end to them. But it certainly is our place to try that little bit extra to satisfy for them and comfort Him in His sorrow.

You're on the right track. Keep to it!
[/quote]

I'm glad of it

I like to plan things well, so I will take time.There is a very peaceful Blessed Sacrament Chapel here, and each Monday morning I spend an hour alone in Adoration. One of the greatest moments of my week. That makes it even harder for me, I think. Through Adoration I've become closer to Christ's Presence in the Eucharist, and it is very tragic to think of such abuses occurring against him. I will definitely try and spend more time before the Tabernacle. I can see it helping with more than just this issue.

Thank you for your words of encouragement =) Blessings!

[hermit]

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1353200846' post='2512043']
I just got back from Mass, where I sang in the choir. It was quite a nice service...except for Communion time.

First, my choir director (who is lovely and non-Catholic) encouraged everyone to receive Communion regardless of their faith. We have a few non-Catholics in the choir. At Communion time, some of them ended up receiving, including my choir director. They looked very awkward and confused.

Then after Mass as I was walking home, I heard some of the non-Catholic girls from choir talking about how "weird" it was to receive Communion, among other things. Basically, from what they were saying it sounded like they were ridiculing the Mass.

It's nice to share in the Mass with non-Catholics...but I was a bit stunned by this. Surely they shouldn't receive the Body and Blood of Christ if they don't believe it to be such! It seemed wrong to me, it just confuses them and seems like a desecration of the Eucharist. I wasn't sure if there was something I should do. Though really, the fact that it happened at this college doesn't really surprise me. As much as I love it here, their observance of Catholic teaching is at times very questionable...

Any thoughts/similar experiences? If this sort of thing happens again, am I obliged to say something?
[/quote]

This subject always slays me... I saw this when my Mother was dying,and I was having a major reversion to the faith, a Priest would come into the room and give communion to everyone there even though I was the only other baptized and confirmed Catholic...After my mother died and as time went on I learned that there is a proper procedure for this problem...If you know that a person is not Catholic, simply tell them(and never be afraid to do this) that they are more than welcome to particapate in the communion procession, but cross your arms over your chest, and a Blessing will be imparted that you may become more united with the Church, If they are not willing to do this then they should not go up to recieve...Every time you recieve Holy Communion you are affirming that you believe everything the Catholic Church teaches... To do so otherwise KNOWINGLY is to eat death upon yourself...

Spem do not put this on your shoulders, speak what you know and believe and the Holy Spirit will take it from there...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='hermit' timestamp='1353216955' post='2512237']
If you know that a person is not Catholic, simply tell them(and never be afraid to do this) that they are more than welcome to particapate in the communion procession, but cross your arms over your chest, and a Blessing will be imparted that you may become more united with the Church, If they are not willing to do this then they should not go up to recieve...
[/quote]
Speaking strictly, we should be phasing out this practice as well. It is not really proper to that part of the Mass.
It is not a [i]major[/i] issue, but it would be better off fading away.

[hermit]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1353218286' post='2512246']
Speaking strictly, we should be phasing out this practice as well. It is not really proper to that part of the Mass.
It is not a [i]major[/i] issue, but it would be better off fading away.
[/quote]
Why so?, and not in a bad way, but I want to learn

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='hermit' timestamp='1353219294' post='2512257']
Why so?, and not in a bad way, but I want to learn
[/quote]
It is not really the place for it. There is a blessing at the end of Mass, but that time after the consecration should be used simply for distributing Communion to those who present themselves. There are no rubrics in place to give extra blessings, and if I understand correctly that implies that it should not occur.
Basically, it is not prescribed by the Church and we should not be adding to the Mass. We are in enough trouble as it is.
(Worse still is when [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/12/quaeritur-can-emchs-give-blessings/"]extraordinary ministers imitate priestly blessings[/url], because it is not at all appropriate for them to do so, and making the attempt blurs the line between the priesthood and the laity. And, in fact, it is not permitted.)

Father Z, as usual, says it better than me:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/12/quaeritur-getting-a-blessing-at-communion-time-fr-z-rants/

[background=transparent]
From a reader:[/background][indent][background=transparent]
We hope to bring 2 children (extended family) to Mass on Christmas Eve. They have not been baptized.[/background][background=transparent]
QUAERITUR: Are unbaptized children allowed to go up to Communion with their arms crossed and receive a blessing? What about an adult who has been baptized but is not Catholic?[/background][/indent][background=transparent]
A priest can invoke God’s blessing on anyone, baptized or not.[/background][background=transparent]
However, Communion time is Communion time, not Blessing Time. There is a time for receiving a blessing during Mass, as it turns out.[/background][background=transparent]
This is a controversial topic and one about which I have written many times. You might check [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/12/quaeritur-can-emchs-give-blessings/"]THIS[/url]entry, for example.[/background][background=transparent]
This practice has, alas, become widespread, much in the same way as church-wide hand-holding, or people saying the priest’s prayers, or having too many EMHCs have become wide-spread. And when someone (read: Father) suggests that these things should be curtailed, people who are emotionally invested in these practices call Father “mean” and then stage a little nutty about their “rights”, as if just because they[i] like[/i] doing x or y, they are empowered by baptism with “rights” to do as they please.[/background][background=transparent]
Are non-Communicants “allowed” to go forward at Communion time? I guess so. An alarm won’t be triggered if they do.[/background][background=transparent]
[size=1][background=transparent]But think about what is going on at different stages of Holy Mass.[/background][/size][/background][background=transparent]
Masses generally have three major orations or prayers: the Collect, the Super oblata over the gifts, the Post Communion. In each case in the Roman Rite there is a procession and a greeting and then the prayer.[/background][background=transparent]
The procession before the Post Communion is actually the procession of those people who go forward to receive the Eucharist because they are a) baptized and b) in Communion with the Church c) admitted to Communion, and d) properly disposed physically by fasting, and e) properly disposed spiritually by being in the state of grace. What happens in the parish church may not seem like a procession in all cases, but going forward is a liturgical act of the faithful, who, because of an [i]interior [/i]disposition (baptismal character and a willed, knowing, active receptivity) manifest their disposition [i]outwardly[/i] in movement to go forward to receive.[/background][background=transparent]
Our baptismal character and our ability to receive is the key to the movement forward.[/background][background=transparent]
In ancient times, the non-baptized catechumens were not even allowed to be inside the Church when the Eucharistic phase of Mass began, much less trot up and get a blessing, something entirely inappropriate for the moment.[/background][background=transparent]
Of course, practically speaking, mothers cannot leave unbaptized infants or children below the age of reason in the pew alone. If Mom chooses to receive at Mass, Mom brings little [i]Stupor [/i]or [i]Stupores Mundi[/i] along.[/background][background=transparent]
But going forward at Communion time actually means something. It isn’t a time for curiosity fulfillment, or novelty seeking, or entertaining young’uns.[/background][background=transparent]
Finally, that “arms crossed” thing. To add to the confusion, some people cross their arms when they want to receive Communion on the tongue, instead of on the hand.[/background][background=transparent]
A plant that is in the wrong place is a weed. A rose in the wrong place is a weed. Roses are great, but they don’t belong everywhere. Blessings are great, but they don’t belong everywhere. I think we need to weed this practice out of our participation at Mass.[/background]

If you want more like that, enter this search term into Google:
[code]blessing at communion site:wdtprs.com[/code]

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='hermit' timestamp='1353216955' post='2512237']
This subject always slays me... I saw this when my Mother was dying,and I was having a major reversion to the faith, a Priest would come into the room and give communion to everyone there even though I was the only other baptized and confirmed Catholic...After my mother died and as time went on I learned that there is a proper procedure for this problem...If you know that a person is not Catholic, simply tell them(and never be afraid to do this) that they are more than welcome to particapate in the communion procession, but cross your arms over your chest, and a Blessing will be imparted that you may become more united with the Church, If they are not willing to do this then they should not go up to recieve...Every time you recieve Holy Communion you are affirming that you believe everything the Catholic Church teaches... To do so otherwise KNOWINGLY is to eat death upon yourself...

Spem do not put this on your shoulders, speak what you know and believe and the Holy Spirit will take it from there...
[/quote]

Thank you The choir director and the Sister both suggested this (receiving a blessing) to non-Communicants as well (on top of encouraging them to receive Communion) so no wonder they were confused. During Communion, one of my friends who is non-Catholic asked if she could stay in her seat. She clearly felt uncomfortable. I think things really needed to be explained better, as it would have made the situation easier for everyone.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1353218286' post='2512246']
Speaking strictly, we should be phasing out this practice as well. It is not really proper to that part of the Mass.
It is not a [i]major[/i] issue, but it would be better off fading away.
[/quote]

I agree, Nihil. Thank you for your explanations of this matter. If I am not receiving Communion, I stay in my seat. Communion doesn't seem like the right place to receive the priest's blessing. And on the point of EMHCs bestowing a blessing - when I was receiving training as an EMHC, I was instructed to bless people if they weren't taking Communion. It didn't feel right to me. Having people come to EMHCs for a blessing can be a very confusing situation.

[hermit]

Thanks Nihil that was a wealth of information...You and Spem are correct, if you think about it this does cause confusion and raise many interesting questions...When I was a kid you went to communion at the communion rail, received from the Priest, and you went up when you were ready to go, not when you were let out of your pew, I wish it were that way again...

Nihil, If I can one more Scenario...

Someone(not a catholic) comes to a catholic mass unaware of what they are doing...Communion time comes, everyone gets up and goes to communion, this person included...Does this person receive the Body of Christ, or does it become invalid i.e. it just becomes a wheat wafer again?...I've heard this said by more than just a few people, but somehow it just does'nt sound right...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='hermit' timestamp='1353262119' post='2512369']
Thanks Nihil that was a wealth of information...You and Spem are correct, if you think about it this does cause confusion and raise many interesting questions...When I was a kid you went to communion at the communion rail, received from the Priest, and you went up when you were ready to go, not when you were let out of your pew, I wish it were that way again...

Nihil, If I can one more Scenario...

Someone(not a catholic) comes to a catholic mass unaware of what they are doing...Communion time comes, everyone gets up and goes to communion, this person included...Does this person receive the Body of Christ, or does it become invalid i.e. it just becomes a wheat wafer again?...I've heard this said by more than just a few people, but somehow it just does'nt sound right...
[/quote]

[quote]When I was a kid you went to communion at the communion rail, received from the Priest, and you went up when you were ready to go, not when you were let out of your pew, I wish it were that way again...
[/quote]

You can still do that, if you know where to go.
It is always your right to kneel too, if that is your preference. Currently the bishops are not encouraging it (I dearly hope that will change), but nobody is permitted to hassle you for it.

[quote]Someone(not a catholic) comes to a catholic mass unaware of what they are doing...Communion time comes, everyone gets up and goes to communion, this person included...Does this person receive the Body of Christ, or does it become invalid i.e. it just becomes a wheat wafer again?...I've heard this said by more than just a few people, but somehow it just does'nt sound right...
[/quote]

No, you are correct, it stays the Eucharist. It is not until the accidents of bread and wine no longer remain that it is no longer the Eucharist, if I am remembering correctly.
It is an unfortunate situation that does happen. Unfortunately on a practical level there is often not much we can do. Whenever I think of it I try to make reparations for sacrilegious receptions of the Eucharist, especially when I am aware of situations where it is likely to occur.