Can't Find List Of Possible Signs Of "issues" In A Religio

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1353263598' post='2512384']
@Mater ... you'd be surprised at what you may do or react given the right circumstance. The community may not tell you until you arrive - and even a live in may not reveal everything.

Besides at arrival you may be so convinced/conditioned that you are in God's will that you may just do as asked without questioning.

[/quote]

Excellent point! New postulants know that they will be asked (or told) to do certain things out of obedience, and they may not know what is typical and expected, and what is "irregular."

In the case of the postulant who was required (not asked) to give up the rosary she had been given as a gift from a priest, it might not have been so strange (although I personally think it's strange in and of itself) if the Sisters had kept the rosary and had given it back to her when she left the Order. However, the postulant never saw the rosary again or even heard what happened to it. And, the postulant was not told before she entered that she would (or might be) be required to give up any possessions she was told to give up, or else she might not have brought the rosary. I expect that postulants are told the types of possessions they are NOT to bring, or are told ahead of time, for example, if all books they bring will be given to the Community library. Or, if a postulant brought something inappropriate, it would seem reasonable (to me, at least) that she would be allowed to send it back home, unless she voluntarily (without pressure) donated it to the Community.

Note: This postulant entered an active Community. Some of the rules and expectations for personal possessions would be different in many/most cloistered Communities. But, as I understand it, usually the giving up of all personal possessions is done at solemn profession, not while the nun is in formation. I also understand that, even in active Communities, there might be rules on what types of gifts a Sister may accept even while in formation. But again, I expect that the Sister would know these rules, so that she could advise others as to what types of personal gifts she would be allowed to accept.

There have been some comments here that a postulant shouldn't expect to have every specific question answered before she enters. I guess I differ on that. I think that, since a postulant is intending to make a life commitment, it is normal and responsible to ask any questions that concern her or her family, other than things that might infringe on another's privacy, for instance. To me, it is not showing a lack of faith to ask questions--it is showing responsible behavior. There are plenty of things that no one can predict when entering religious life. Simply entering is, in and of itself, an enormous act of faith.

Edited November 18, 2012 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1353263598' post='2512384']
@Mater ... you'd be surprised at what you may do or react given the right circumstance. The community may not tell you until you arrive - and even a live in may not reveal everything.

Besides at arrival you may be so convinced/conditioned that you are in God's will that you may just do as asked without questioning.

Finally some groups even "break" canon law per se. I knew I was allowed to keep my retirement acct intact until I reached retirement age where any funds would go to the community (things are different for solemn vows that certain religious take). The 2nd community started to try to convince me that I needed to empty out the acct - and I told them that I couldn't. I knew I was in the right but didn't let them know. Thank God that the 1st community taught me the truth.
[/quote]

You make a good point. I hope that I would know what to do in that situation. My hopeful future community's Provincial Superior has been very gracious in answering any questions that I have so they are not trying to hide anything. I feel very comfortable asking her questions and she is open to it, which is a good sign. I'd be alarmed if she was trying to hide something from me by not answering a regular question.

[Antigonos]

Mater, I've been away for two weeks on a cruise -- would it be inappropriate to ask if there have been any developments with your discernment? If you'd rather reply off-forum, you can contact me at slevami at yahoo dot com since I don't seem to be able to PM anyone.

Of course I fully understand if you'd rather not comment at present.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1353321498' post='2512876']
Mater, I've been away for two weeks on a cruise -- would it be inappropriate to ask if there have been any developments with your discernment? If you'd rather reply off-forum, you can contact me at slevami at yahoo dot com since I don't seem to be able to PM anyone.

Of course I fully understand if you'd rather not comment at present.
[/quote]

I don't feel comfortable divulging anything at the moment because my associate pastor asked me not to. I do ask for your prayers.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1353326376' post='2512889']

I don't feel comfortable divulging anything at the moment because my associate pastor asked me not to. I do ask for your prayers.
[/quote]

You may take it for granted that I do pray for you. If you want me to put a prayer request in a crack of the Western Wall of the Temple [Jewish custom], just email me your first name and your mother's first name, and I'll be happy to do so.

[maximillion]

Off topic, sorry, but Mater, I am still praying too.................

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1353264597' post='2512387']
Excellent point! New postulants know that they will be asked (or told) to do certain things out of obedience, and they may not know what is typical and expected, and what is "irregular."
[/quote]
I think a thread like this is good because of this -- new candidates (pre-postulants/aspirants included) don't know what is correct.

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1353264597' post='2512387']
In the case of the postulant who was required (not asked) to give up the rosary she had been given as a gift from a priest, it might not have been so strange (although I personally think it's strange in and of itself) if the Sisters had kept the rosary and had given it back to her when she left the Order. However, the postulant never saw the rosary again or even heard what happened to it. And, the postulant was not told before she entered that she would (or might be) be required to give up any possessions she was told to give up, or else she might not have brought the rosary. I expect that postulants are told the types of possessions they are NOT to bring, or are told ahead of time, for example, if all books they bring will be given to the Community library. Or, if a postulant brought something inappropriate, it would seem reasonable (to me, at least) that she would be allowed to send it back home, unless she voluntarily (without pressure) donated it to the Community.

Note: This postulant entered an active Community. Some of the rules and expectations for personal possessions would be different in many/most cloistered Communities. But, as I understand it, usually the giving up of all personal possessions is done at solemn profession, not while the nun is in formation. I also understand that, even in active Communities, there might be rules on what types of gifts a Sister may accept even while in formation. But again, I expect that the Sister would know these rules, so that she could advise others as to what types of personal gifts she would be allowed to accept.
[/quote]

Iggy -- I'm not surprised that the rosary was not returned. My lay clothes was taken from me when I entered postulancy, and they were NOT returned. In addition, I turned in the money I was carrying on me, again an account was not given on how it was spent nor was the money returned when I left.

But -- that community (the 2nd I entered) was definitely not healthy and has a lot of characteristics of a cult. Unluckily I did not see this until processing what happened.

Now the 1st community did not do this -- they were quite a good community.

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1353264597' post='2512387']
There have been some comments here that a postulant shouldn't expect to have every specific question answered before she enters. I guess I differ on that. I think that, since a postulant is intending to make a life commitment, it is normal and responsible to ask any questions that concern her or her family, other than things that might infringe on another's privacy, for instance. To me, it is not showing a lack of faith to ask questions--it is showing responsible behavior. There are plenty of things that no one can predict when entering religious life. Simply entering is, in and of itself, an enormous act of faith.
[/quote]

I agree with you here Iggy -- if a postulant thinks of any question, that question should be answered ahead of time. They may not know everything before entering ... for example the 1st community I entered had just reopened their formation program, and they were still working on things as they we were going along. I remember finding out after I entered that friends were only allowed to call once a year ... I got upset and was very vocal about it (because that is something important to know ahead of time). But I am sure that they do reveal this now to those who are entering (again they were restarting their formation program so I understand that "sudden rule change").