Regarding Leaving Communities

[BarbTherese]

My experience now strikes me as quite funny. I was instructed by my novice mistress to not talk to my confessor/director again about leaving (he had advised me to leave) and to raise the subject with the priest who would be giving our retreat. I followed her instructions which made things quite uncomfortable with my confessor/director and when I spoke to the retreat priest as Mother had instructed, he literally hit the roof that I would allow anyone at all to state what I could or could not say in the confessional. Hence, rather that come away with more clarity as I had anticipated (ahhh those anticipations and expectations again - those creations of imagination!), I was more confused than ever and Mother was not at all happy.........not at all........when I told her what the retreat priest had advised.

Edited November 16, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[Lilllabettt]

When I left I thought the odds were my life would be over sooner rather than later, and that terrified me. Although it did comfort me to think that whatever pain I was experiencing would end soon enough. I was horribly sick, uninsured, and going to live in my childhood home. My parents were ... wrapped up in their various addictions. I remember waking up the first morning there to the stench of alcohol, laying on my bed beneath my mother as she screamed into my face that I'd been sent away because I was evil. I thought: they can't take care of me; you know - find out how to get my special medicine, get specialist appointments, whip up this weird diet, all that ... I don't know how to take care of me and am too tired to find out, no one has the money for any of it. I tried to get a job for the health insurance; I drove to the parking lot of the place and the garage guy asked what was wrong with me. I counted out the pills keeping me alive and figured after they were gone it would end quickly.

Of course, in the end God took care of me and everything was fine.

That is the key take-away. All the fear, real and imaginary, I had to face ... came to nothing in the face of that fact.

[mantellata]

I wonder is why it is so concerning that Sisters should see each other's emotions? All are grown women.... if unable to face tears at a loss and support one another through it - I wonder how "mature" or "integrated" those women truly are...

While I would concede that there are truly individual cases where - knowing personal weakness and perhaps other circumstances would warrant a more "secretive" departure - or even having respect for personal preference as in the case above (respecting personal boundaries etc...) to make a blanket "rule" that it is [u]so detrimental[/u] for Sisters to see pain and loss that a young woman has to be shuffled out the door as if she was being shunned instead of expressing that sadness and talking about it afterward seems odd .... and a bit unhealthy.

Thoughts?

[maximillion]

mantellata, I think your reference to 'shunned' says it all.......

When I first mentioned the possibility I may ask for exclaustration to my Superior she was much more concerned about my not discussing this with any other Sister than almost anything else, and I was kept miles away from the Novices, which was confusing to them since I was close to most.
I agree that if we are not mature enough to support each other through this stage of discernment then it does not say much for our overall maturity, and maybe even more about simple Christian compassion.

It saddens me to know that there are still these experiences, that what can be painful and difficult is rendered heartbreaking in some cases.

I think my advice to anyone before you enter is to know what the system/process is for if the community or you discern out..........

On the other hand, I am also gratified and happy to know that there is a much more open attitude towards discernment in general and that it may take entering more than once in order to find where God is truly calling a person, and that this more enlightened attitude is beneficial to everyone concerned.
In this respect I thank both nunsense and Sr Faith Cecilia (among others) who have so very generously shared their ongoing journeys with us all.

Edited November 16, 2012 by maximillion

[cmaD2006]

I have to say ... that the way my departure was handled by the 1st community was beautiful. The sisters (and my classmate, who is now a perpetually professed sister) were informed. I was able to say goodbye, and was sent off with a lot of good wishes.

It was quite healthy, and the fact that I am still in contact with them (I was recently in class with some of the sisters present) says a lot.

In the 1st community -- even the discernment was done well. I had been in a lot of inner turmoil about whether or not to leave. It was a decision that took months. What nailed the decision was a conversation I had with the (newly appointed) postulant directress. We were meeting, and she asked if I thought it was ok for her to share with me what she thought. I said sure -- and she went ahead to tell me what she saw, which matched (with one exception) to everything that I had already seen for myself, but could not put together. I *knew* then what my decision was (and she even said "please, don't think I'm telling you to leave!" to which I said "you're not -- 99% of what you've told me I've already seen for myself). It then took about 2 months to get ready to leave (I was trying to get a volunteer placement before leaving).

What I did realize after the fact is that I had a lot of maturing to do (although I was 33, I really needed to grow). The experiences I have had since have helped me in that regard -- and the sisters I was 1st with have been instrumental in being supportive throughout.

I just wanted to put this out there since my previous posts were so negative about my experiences leaving religious life. It isn't always like that.

[carmenchristi]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1353079985' post='2511261']
I have to say ... that the way my departure was handled by the 1st community was beautiful. The sisters (and my classmate, who is now a perpetually professed sister) were informed. I was able to say goodbye, and was sent off with a lot of good wishes.

It was quite healthy, and the fact that I am still in contact with them (I was recently in class with some of the sisters present) says a lot.

In the 1st community -- even the discernment was done well. I had been in a lot of inner turmoil about whether or not to leave. It was a decision that took months. What nailed the decision was a conversation I had with the (newly appointed) postulant directress. We were meeting, and she asked if I thought it was ok for her to share with me what she thought. I said sure -- and she went ahead to tell me what she saw, which matched (with one exception) to everything that I had already seen for myself, but could not put together. I *knew* then what my decision was (and she even said "please, don't think I'm telling you to leave!" to which I said "you're not -- 99% of what you've told me I've already seen for myself). It then took about 2 months to get ready to leave (I was trying to get a volunteer placement before leaving).

What I did realize after the fact is that I had a lot of maturing to do (although I was 33, I really needed to grow). The experiences I have had since have helped me in that regard -- and the sisters I was 1st with have been instrumental in being supportive throughout.

I just wanted to put this out there since my previous posts were so negative about my experiences leaving religious life. It isn't always like that.
[/quote]

I too would add that though my experience in religious life was negative, my experience in leaving and my relationship with the sisters even now is positive. Things have changed a lot in that community. Wouldn't encourage girls to join, but things have changed a lot since when I entered.

[Joan Marie Wandel]

[quote name='carmenchristi' timestamp='1353090668' post='2511359']
I too would add that though my experience in religious life was negative, my experience in leaving and my relationship with the sisters even now is positive. Things have changed a lot in that community. Wouldn't encourage girls to join, but things have changed a lot since when I entered.
[/quote]

what community?

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1353035601' post='2511060']
When I left I thought the odds were my life would be over sooner rather than later, and that terrified me. Although it did comfort me to think that whatever pain I was experiencing would end soon enough. I was horribly sick, uninsured, and going to live in my childhood home. My parents were ... wrapped up in their various addictions. I remember waking up the first morning there to the stench of alcohol, laying on my bed beneath my mother as she screamed into my face that I'd been sent away because I was evil. I thought: they can't take care of me; you know - find out how to get my special medicine, get specialist appointments, whip up this weird diet, all that ... I don't know how to take care of me and am too tired to find out, no one has the money for any of it. I tried to get a job for the health insurance; I drove to the parking lot of the place and the garage guy asked what was wrong with me. I counted out the pills keeping me alive and figured after they were gone it would end quickly.

Of course, in the end God took care of me and everything was fine.

That is the key take-away. All the fear, real and imaginary, I had to face ... came to nothing in the face of that fact.
[/quote]
Thank you for sharing this. The little bit of your story I have read is very inspiring. If you have written more, or have a blog I would love to read it! You have some serious faith and resilience.

[quote name='mantellata' timestamp='1353064057' post='2511186']
I wonder is why it is so concerning that Sisters should see each other's emotions? All are grown women.... if unable to face tears at a loss and support one another through it - I wonder how "mature" or "integrated" those women truly are...

While I would concede that there are truly individual cases where - knowing personal weakness and perhaps other circumstances would warrant a more "secretive" departure - or even having respect for personal preference as in the case above (respecting personal boundaries etc...) to make a blanket "rule" that it is [u]so detrimental[/u] for Sisters to see pain and loss that a young woman has to be shuffled out the door as if she was being shunned instead of expressing that sadness and talking about it afterward seems odd .... and a bit unhealthy.

Thoughts?
[/quote]

This is a very thought provoking post. Honestly when I left I just kind of took anything my superior to say as the best. When I told her I was leaving that next morning, I think it was the first thing I ever "told" her vs asking her. But I think the reasoning is after avoiding particular friendships and not looking to your sisters for that support, if I was to go to them crying as I was leaving I would be seeking support from them. Also since I was in the novitiate the other sisters have so much on their plate trying to discern their own calling. When emotions from another sister get in the mix it could make it harder for them to discern the spirits. Perhaps it would be different if I was in a later stage of formation or in the mission. I honestly have not come to a complete conclusion on the matter. Just a few thoughts I had.

[BarbTherese]

There is the community to be taken into considertion - and also the person who is leaving. Usually leadership has insight into individuals in the community and certainly the person who is leaving. What is best for all - all taken into consideration prayerfully - seems to me to be the way to go. However, ushering someone out in a very secretive manner and not taking into account the person's wellbeing seems to me quite wrongful. I think that leadership has a responsibility towards this person. After all one leaves all behind in the world and in good faith to enter the community and this is all accepted and confirmed by leadership on behalf of the community and religious order. This means to me that leadership has a moral responsibility also for the wellbeing of the person leaving, a responsibility and indeed accountability that does not end when the person makes a definite decision to leave.

All in religious life surely are aware that to Final Profession it is a journey of discernment - and any person can leave at any point.

I also think that if vocations by novices and others in a community are going to be shaken into uncertainty about their vocation by any occurance whatsoever, it is well to bring this to the surface and deal with it, rather than some occurance further down the line and perhaps at a much later stage in religious life causing a sister or sisters to question their vocation. And such events can occur at any stage at all in religious life and not necessarily at all only by a person leaving the community. To 'molly coddle' a community, wrapping it in protective cotton wool so that 'feathers are never ruffled' in the slightest, to my mind is not in the interests of the common good. Certainly, to be disinterested in a person's wellbeing once they decide to leave the community because of the 'common good' is not acting in the interests of the common good to my mind. It is nothing of Gospel thinking and acting.

I am not discerning religious life in any way, hence possibly should be silent and never a strong point with me and no excuse whatsoever - but it seems to me that maturity is an absolute necessity in religious life and that in fact some evidence of maturity is today asked by leadership before accepting any person into the community. To my mind, individuals in a community need to be treated as mature adults and expected to think and act as mature adults. When I entered religious life (twice) it was not to be protected and shielded from crisis, conflict and difficulty on any level, rather to embrace The Cross.

This will be my last post into this thread as I am speaking on a subject that I have no real insight into other than experiences over 45 and 20 years ago now and not in leadership, but as a person leaving religious life.

[carmenchristi]

[quote name='Joan Marie Wandel' timestamp='1353107966' post='2511482']


what community?
[/quote]
Sent you a pm.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='carmenchristi' timestamp='1353090668' post='2511359']


I too would add that though my experience in religious life was negative, my experience in leaving and my relationship with the sisters even now is positive. Things have changed a lot in that community. Wouldn't encourage girls to join, but things have changed a lot since when I entered.
[/quote]

This is such a blessing that things are changing ... God works wonders doesn't He?

[He is Risen!]

I left my community about two years ago. When everything was going down, I felt totally detached from what was going on. My superior said that she never saw someone take it so well but actually I was just numb to it all. About a month or two after I left, I fell apart and was in a lot of darkness, anger, etc. Now I look back and see that when I was in the community, I was becoming an automaton, I saw it as detachment, but it was really a sort of turning myself off, not flourishing. As much as it hurt me to leave, I'm glad that I did.

[nikita92]

THANK YOU all for sharing these difficult emotional journeys experianced in your religious lives!!!! I'm sure it is not something that is front and center when one is in the process of discerning a certain religious community. The aspect(s) of possible Red Flags, as well as the emotional/mental wounds that could happen if the match is not "MADE IN HEAVEN" (s o to speak) I support what Curiousing said along the lines of having a need for some sort of organization that would help displaced religious find help in returning back into the "OUTSIDE"

[carmenchristi]

[quote name='nikita92' timestamp='1353298289' post='2512762']
THANK YOU all for sharing these difficult emotional journeys experianced in your religious lives!!!! I'm sure it is not something that is front and center when one is in the process of discerning a certain religious community. The aspect(s) of possible Red Flags, as well as the emotional/mental wounds that could happen if the match is not "MADE IN HEAVEN" (s o to speak) I support what Curiousing said along the lines of having a need for some sort of organization that would help displaced religious find help in returning back into the "OUTSIDE"
[/quote]

I can't stress enough that our sharing of experiences is meant not for us to vent (though that is helpful to us), but to help those discerning. Not to scare them away, but to say that nomatter how convinced and certain you may be of your vocation, it is in God!s hands anything can happen.. And most importantly, be aware, use your head and if something seems strange to you take note of it. Sometimes these things you will have to evaluate for yourself as often in strange situations there is no access to outside council, but this is in and of itself a warning sign. I don't care how orthodox you and others think the community is on your entering, that is not enough to say everything must be ok. Study what the church teaches on religious life! Know the relevant sections of the code of canon law... Use your head! And follow the inclinations of your heart that often tell us when something is wrong!
Most of all... Follow Christ without reserve, even if that means opening yourself to possibilities that you would have never considered in the past!

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='carmenchristi' timestamp='1353326416' post='2512890']
I can't stress enough that our sharing of experiences is meant not for us to vent (though that is helpful to us), but to help those discerning. Not to scare them away, [u]bu[b]t to say that nomatter how convinced and certain you may be of your vocation, it is in God!s [/b][/u]hands anything can happen.. And most importantly, be aware, use your head and if something seems strange to you take note of it. Sometimes these things you will have to evaluate for yourself as often in strange situations there is no access to outside council, but this is in and of itself a warning sign. I don't care how orthodox you and others think the community is on your entering, that is not enough to say everything must be ok. Study what the church teaches on religious life! Know the relevant sections of the code of canon law... Use your head! And follow the inclinations of your heart that often tell us when something is wrong!
Most of all..[u].[b] Follow Christ without reserve, even if that means opening yourself to possibilities that you would have never considered in the past![/b][/u]
[/quote]

This this this a million times over. It is God's vocation. Beautiful post.