Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1352327063' post='2506066'] LOL. That's why many Catholics feel they can support legal abortion as a trade off for free healthcare. There's always wiggle room. [/quote] Yeah, more evidence that people do not think very well. [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352326718' post='2506061'] By the way, the document you referenced says: [...] That does not sound like an approval of drug use or decriminalization to me. Nevertheless, I am willing to examine any magisterial document you may find that supports your position. [/quote] It does not sound to me like an infallible condemnation of marijuana either. As I have said several times now, at the moment the Church does not favour marijuana use. That is fine. But as I have argued further, I believe the Church also allows a legitimate plurality of opinions on this topic, and you have simply denied that without support. "On the level of concrete political action, there can generally be a plurality of political parties in which Catholics may exercise – especially through legislative assemblies – their right and duty to contribute to the public life of their country.[16] This arises because of the contingent nature of certain choices regarding the ordering of society, the variety of strategies available for accomplishing or guaranteeing the same fundamental value, the possibility of different interpretations of the basic principles of political theory, and the technical complexity of many political problems." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I am not really interested in this debate any longer... apparently some people are not willing to speak about the issues without getting personal. That does not interest me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1352327409' post='2506078'] Alcohol was a byproduct of sanitizing and preserving liquids. They byproduct of a necessity can be abused. Society has incorporated moderation well, but abuse is still a problem. And you're already stoned or smoking trash if you think smoking a bowl doesn't affect you. [/quote] smoking a bowl gives you a little buzz just as drinking 2 or 3 beers gives you a buzz....both amounts would be considered moderation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352327708' post='2506085'] Yeah, more evidence that people do not think very well. It does not sound to me like an infallible condemnation of marijuana either. As I have said several times now, at the moment the Church does not favour marijuana use. That is fine. But as I have argued further, I believe the Church also allows a legitimate plurality of opinions on this topic, and you have simply denied that without support. "On the level of concrete political action, there can generally be a plurality of political parties in which Catholics may exercise – especially through legislative assemblies – their right and duty to contribute to the public life of their country.[16] This arises because of the contingent nature of certain choices regarding the ordering of society, the variety of strategies available for accomplishing or guaranteeing the same fundamental value, the possibility of different interpretations of the basic principles of political theory, and the technical complexity of many political problems." [/quote] I see, so you can ignore the moral law as long as you believe that the documents that speak about a particular issue are non-infallible. Welcome to the Kennedy family. There is no legitimate plurality on moral issues. There can be legitimate diversity in the means used to get to a particular end, but in the present case the end (or goal) we are talking about is diametrically opposite. The Church says that recreational drug use should be illegal, while you support decriminalization. Nihil, you are confusing the means, where there can be legitimate diversity, with the end, where there cannot be. If I accepted your position I could easily justify the legalization of abortion, euthanasia, or any number of other immoral and reprehensible acts. Edited November 7, 2012 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352326581' post='2506060'] Number one, I was not limiting myself to America, and I do not know why anyone should. [/quote]Because of the title of the thread, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1352327919' post='2506090'] smoking a bowl gives you a little buzz just as drinking 2 or 3 beers gives you a buzz....both amounts would be considered moderation... [/quote]Seriously? I supported myself quite nicely for years with my only income from selling pot. I know better. You may just be accustomed to functioning while high, the same as an alcoholic or heavy drinker functions better than a high school senior if they both have three beers. Do you think you would pass a blood alcohol level test after three beers? How would they test for marijuana intoxication if you were in an accident? How buzzed can you be without being a danger to others? Has there been testing? Edited November 7, 2012 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I don't even smoke now but used to all the time...I abused pot at one point...but the more recent times I've smoked its only been a little bit at a time...could I legally drive a car ? I don't know...pry shouldn't...but as far as being "drunk" or in that state from smoking a small amount I woulnt say that's accurate...its not an all or nothing...you could smoke a tiny bowl and enjoy a good buzz but not be stoned out of your mind...like I said I would compare it to drinking a few beers...I don't know if I would pass an alcohol test after 3 beers...pry depends how quick I drank them...I'm 5'11 around 200 pounds...but I guess my point is you can smoke in moderation...although I guess I do agree that it is different taking a hit from a bowl and drinking a single drink...the marijuana buzz is felt right away...but its not a bad buzz that makes you want to go out and drive or do crazy stuff...and again the buzz is minimal with a small amount smoked...and sure tolerance does come into play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I'm not some big pothead either...I don't even smoke now...I guess I just think its a joke when its made to look evil when that's not the case...there's many benefits to it...medically and even for someone like me who its much better for me to smoke a bowl and chill at home to relax then to drink beers...because relaxing and only drinking a few beers is tough for me...and it makes me want to go out and party and ect ect...marijuana does the opposite...it just makes me want to chill which I can appreciate... Edited November 7, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I don't care if its legal or not really...I've always had ZERO problem finding weed if I wanted it...so its really not an issue to me...I just don't like all the propoganda and lies behind it...from a shady government I don't trust..and that has killed over 50 million babies....God calls it good in the first pages of the Bible...That's good enough for me I don't give a flying flop what the government has to say about it...they can s u c k wind.... Edited November 7, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Guys, really douse the joint and get a grip on reality. I have seen some of the most stupid responses posted in this thread. The one saying " God says its good "? Was that a private revelation? Then soon after the post saying " I don't think its immoral..." since when was breaking the law a moral thing ? Man eat some doritos and get a grip on whats left of your brain cells while there is still time. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352316644' post='2505908'] I would be seriously hesitant about considering use of marijuana, or any broadly mind-altering substance as an aid in meditation. That is striking me as much too close to pagan shamanistic meditation that is not based in God, but rather in oneself. [/quote] Definately! Any drug that alters the brain chemistry is dangerous. That's been proven with SSRI's link to suicide. And I can confirm from personal experience because at some stage in my life I've been on just about every prescription drug in existence. Any drug that induces a euphoric state can be confused with spiritual elevation however it is a false one. Under the influence there is often considerable reduction in cognition and quite often a reverse to the desired effects. And what are the stats on psychotic or schizophrenic induced conditions from marijuana use in those with a predisposition. Also 'tame' drugs often lead to the use of 'heavier' ones that's why I questioned the legalisation of Mj reducing drug cartel profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1352331524' post='2506178'] I don't care if its legal or not really...I've always had ZERO problem finding weed if I wanted it...so its really not an issue to me...I just don't like all the propoganda and lies behind it...from a shady government I don't trust..and that has killed over 50 million babies....God calls it good in the first pages of the Bible...That's good enough for me I don't give a flying flop what the government has to say about it...they can smell of elderberries wind.... [/quote] Delivery Boy, would you mind quoting the verse in the bible where God said smoking pot was good ? Was it where its written , I give you dominion over all the weed, the ditch weed, the stank bud, the homegrown,the chronic and the dusted weed, go forth and roll doobies and make a wave offering to me ? I must have missed that one. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 God calls every seed bearing plant good in Genesis...I got plenty of brain cells and am 31 and have been supporting myself on my own the last 10 years...I don't even smoke now but go judge somebody else...and don't give me the legal poop abortion is legal to by our shady government...some places marijuana isn't illegal...the world is bigger then the usa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) nm Edited November 7, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) And there are other ways to ingest marijuana other then smoking it...And God calls every seed bearing plant good and that it can be used for food...and its not posionous like some plants would be before you go there... Edited November 7, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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