dominicansoul Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1352320018' post='2505938'] erowid.org ^ um, Ed, that is exactly what happened. pay attention. people who ran speakeasies and backyard moonshine business and smuggling liquor all fell by the wayside. and so will the cartels. they will be replaced by people who operate within the confines of the law, ie no killing each other, or lacing drugs. [/quote] and Al Capone went to prison for "tax evasion..." crazy shtuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352320548' post='2505944'] I am not a stupid person. Are you being intentionally obtuse or what? Why do we not actually discuss this issue, instead of you trying just making snide comments? If you are not planning on actually discussing this subject, then you and I are both wasting our time. [/quote]Did someone pee in your bong water? I asked a simple question in relatively comprehensible english. Your response was obtuse. The consideration of potential negatives vs potential gains in considering changes to society in general isn't a a factor for you. Fundamental difference between us. If you categorically dismiss a fundamental consideration to the degree you can't comprehend a question, than it isn't likely a mutually enlightening discussion can ensue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1352321626' post='2505963'] Did someone pee in your bong water? I asked a simple question in relatively comprehensible english. Your response was obtuse. The consideration of potential negatives vs potential gains in considering changes to society in general isn't a a factor for you. Fundamental difference between us. If you categorically dismiss a fundamental consideration to the degree you can't comprehend a question, than it isn't likely a mutually enlightening discussion can ensue. [/quote] I told you I did not understand what you were asking. If I wanted to be obtuse I would have given you some fluff non-answer. Telling you straight up that I do not understand the question is generally considered, by respectable people, as an invitation to rephrase the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 What is the NEED for new intoxicant to be made more available in society when we have enough problems dealing with intoxicants used almost universally in all cultures for thousands of years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Well first off it is well established that marijuana is not new. On an historical level it is more correct to say that it is new as a taboo. Putting that aside, if we want to talk on a purely utilitarian level, which I do not particularly enjoy doing, there are several cases to be made that wider legal access to marijuana would solve more social ills than it would cause. The prison system would be unburdened of people that really should not be there. Likewise for law enforcement resources. The medical community could get far more research done without all the silly red tape to dance around. Trafficking violence, at least in marijuana, would be completely hamstrung and overnight it would no longer be profitable. Not to mention the mountains of studies showing countless applications of marijuana medicinally. Frankly it is appalling that these medical uses are mostly criminalized as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352321446' post='2505957'] and Al Capone went to prison for "tax evasion..." crazy shtuff! [/quote] [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1352320018' post='2505938'] erowid.org ^ um, Ed, that is exactly what happened. pay attention. people who ran speakeasies and backyard moonshine business and smuggling liquor all fell by the wayside. and so will the cartels. they will be replaced by people who operate within the confines of the law, ie no killing each other, or lacing drugs. [/quote] Rumour is that my great grandfather was a rum runner. I have heard that he smuggled alcoholic beverages from a small town near the border (Rainy River, I think), into the US. I hope it is true. I am quite proud if it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Although many Catholics may not like it, the Church's Magisterium has condemned any and all attempts to decriminalize drugs, including marijuana, because recreational drug use is contrary to the objective good of the human person. "We need to be able to identify and recognize the importance of drug lobbies, as well as the pressure they place on civil authorities and within the whole society, in order to fight them with the various weapons at our disposal: political, economic, and judicial; and at the national, regional, and international levels. In particular, it would be wise for all civil authorities, to set in place laws and norms to effectively fight the use of drugs and the networks established for their distribution, refusing to decriminalize any use of them. Decriminalization opens the door to total liberalizatin, leading only to the perpetuation of drug addiction." [Pontifical Council for Health Care, "Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction," no. 190] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352323129' post='2505982'] Although many Catholics may not like it, the Church's Magisterium has condemned any and all attempts to decriminalize drugs, including marijuana, because recreational drug use is contrary to the objective good of the human person. "We need to be able to identify and recognize the importance of drug lobbies, as well as the pressure they place on civil authorities and within the whole society, in order to fight them with the various weapons at our disposal: political, economic, and judicial; and at the national, regional, and international levels. In particular, it would be wise for all civil authorities, to set in place laws and norms to effectively fight the use of drugs and the networks established for their distribution, refusing to decriminalize any use of them. Decriminalization opens the door to total liberalizatin, leading only to the perpetuation of drug addiction." [Pontifical Council for Health Care, "Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction," no. 190] [/quote] What, no obligatory line about how this Latin law does not apply to the Eastern Churches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 hi Apo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352323129' post='2505982'] Although many Catholics may not like it, the Church's Magisterium has condemned any and all attempts to decriminalize drugs, including marijuana, because recreational drug use is contrary to the objective good of the human person. "We need to be able to identify and recognize the importance of drug lobbies, as well as the pressure they place on civil authorities and within the whole society, in order to fight them with the various weapons at our disposal: political, economic, and judicial; and at the national, regional, and international levels. In particular, it would be wise for all civil authorities, to set in place laws and norms to effectively fight the use of drugs and the networks established for their distribution, refusing to decriminalize any use of them. Decriminalization opens the door to total liberalizatin, leading only to the perpetuation of drug addiction." [Pontifical Council for Health Care, "Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction," no. 190] [/quote] Thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 All of us know full well that this represents the prudential opinion of the Pontifical Council for Health Care, and not infallible Church doctrine. Remember when the Pontifical Council for Justice, or whatever it is called, basically up and called for a worldwide financial regulating authority? Let us all use our common sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352323687' post='2505993'] What, no obligatory line about how this Latin law does not apply to the Eastern Churches? [/quote] No, because this is not an East / West issue. The moral law is universal. By the way, not only has the Church's Magisterium declared that any attempt to decriminalize drugs is contrary to Catholic moral principles, it also teaches that the use of drugs is sinful (i.e., gravely immoral), and yes that includes the use of cannabis. Edited November 7, 2012 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352317008' post='2505915'] What I mean is that it would be a bad idea to try to use marijuana in a religious way, to try to gain a spiritual experience. I think that would be dangerous, spiritually speaking. I do not believe, necessarily, that using marijuana for its mind altering effects, is immoral. Again, not necessarily immoral, though it could be, and would be if used in excess. Like alcohol. [/quote] that was my point...if you're christian and meditating on the word of God and grounded in your faith that's good...nothing wrong with that in my humble opinion...nothing wrong with taking a hit out of a bowl and listening to mother angelica...the problem would be for a non christian using it in that way because it would be easy for the devil to get involved and lead one away from Christ... Edited November 7, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1352324398' post='2506006'] No, because this is not an East / West issue. The moral law is universal. By the way, not only has the Church's Magisterium declared that any attempt to decriminalize drugs is contrary to Catholic moral principles, it also teaches that the use of drugs is sinful (i.e., gravely immoral), and yes that includes the use of cannabis. [/quote] Why is alcohol different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352324535' post='2506009'] Why is alcohol different? [/quote] because Jesus drank wine with his apostles and didn't smoke weed with his disciples.. that's the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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