Ice_nine Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1352420082' post='2506750'] these ain't no church documents... but it seems like the Popes have messed up the rotation... This articles comes from a (shall we say) publication that really likes water pipes, but not just for plumbing. I really don't feel comfortable posting the link here. (granted, alot of the article is very, ummm, animated and creative about the role of the church and marijuana through the ages) But even if they get all these other facts wrong...and tremendously wrong; would they really be so stupid to think the Church approves or is ambiguous about marijuana use? Wouldn't it be in their interests to find the Church as an ally if there was any possibility (regardless how slight) that the Church taught anything except seeing marijuana use as morally bad? I am not arguing if it's addictive, bad for you, alters your mindset, or any of that... it just seems the Church steps flat-footed here, with little, if any ambiguity... which pretty much smells of very rotten elderberries for everyone... but it is what it is... [/quote] I've read the article before, and I also remember reading the actual words of JPII that they were referring to. From what I remember (my memory is a bit fuzzy, from years of time passing not from smoking the reefer) a lot of the condemnation was predicated on the pitfalls of the drug counter-culture, and the dangers that drugs can help cause/reinforce the dangerous beliefs/ideology AND because the potential for abuse. I'm searching for it again so I can give it another read through. But to answer your question as to whether said group of drug users would benefit from finding an ally in the church . . . probably not. This brand of folk tends to think religion is lame and that adherents are mindless sheep who swallow lies and propaganda and live in fear. Therein lies part of the problem. How can the church approach the issue of drug use without considering how integral it is to a counter-culture that is typically atheistic or new age and based on rebellion? It can't, and so the issue of actual substance use is rarely if ever separated from these cultural correlates when the church discusses them, which becomes a real problem when trying to determine the morality of use by itself. [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1352421473' post='2506764'] Catholics always can justify just about anything. Just disagree based on your personal interpretation, note the Chirch did not speak infallibly, and wa-la, your conscience is golden. Pro pot, anti pot. Etc. etc. just as long as you don't masterbate or eat beef on Fridays. [/quote] ikr! so gr8. [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1352428861' post='2506880'] The Church says no. The Holy Father does not approve. Roma locuta est, causa finita est. [/quote] says "no" to what? Drug use? Drug abuse? Because if it's the former then why don't all psychoactive substances fall under the supposed ban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 If the full legalization of marijuana ever becomes a reality I imagine that tobacco companies would get in on the action and you'd start to see stuff like "contains 10% marijuana" or similar. In fact, laws would probably be put in place to limit the potency that could be legally sold--just like the limits with alcohol. Capitalism would naturally put today's marijuana growers out of business and 100% pure marijuana would probably be limited to the "home growers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1352449812' post='2507028'] If the full legalization of marijuana ever becomes a reality I imagine that tobacco companies would get in on the action and you'd start to see stuff like "contains 10% marijuana" or similar. In fact, laws would probably be put in place to limit the potency that could be legally sold--just like the limits with alcohol. Capitalism would naturally put today's marijuana growers out of business and 100% pure marijuana would probably be limited to the "home growers". [/quote] That sounds plausible. I do not doubt that marijuana will be legalized at some point in the next ten to twenty years. Sadly, it will be just another sign, one of many, that the Catholic Church is in decline in the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) In the late 1800's Pope Leo XIII endorsed cocaine wine and carried a flask of it....So cocaine (at the time it was legal ) and hard liquor are ok, supported, and not "mind altering" but a plant that God calls good in the Bible, a plant God says CAN be used for food, and is far less harmful then alcohol is the same as me going out and doing crack...Hmmmm I don't know if that adds up.... Edited November 9, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) If marijuana does get legalized and the Church came out and said its for sure a mortal sin to use it I don't know if I could with a good conscience remaain catholic. And right now I don't even smoke. So its not about me wanting to "get high". Its more about what the Bible says and how if the Church came out with this stance offically it would be directly contradicting the word of God. Because God clearly says in the Bible that every seed bearing plant is GOOD and CAN be used for food. The Bible even talks about "spirtual" foods. So again this isn't just about "smoking" weed with me. Apostle Paul over and over again stresses about our freedom in Christ. He reminds us to not let anyone judge us on matters of food and drink. Further he says do not comdemn yourself for something that you know is good and you approve. And in matters of food and drink nothing is unclean in and of itself to those who know the truth and give thanks to God. Edited November 9, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) At about the age of 20 when I had lost my faith completly I was lost. I would drink often back then an when I didn't drink I would often smoke marijuana. Anyhow to make a long story short every time I ended up smoking around that time of my life I was hit with the overwhleming sensation to go and read my unused Bible I got at first communion. Over the next six months I read that entire Bible. That Bible is worn out from that time period. You can tell I read that thing front to back and certain parts over and over from how worn out it was. But everytime I would smoke that's what I felt so prompted to do. Not go out to the club or bars or whatever which I would get the urge to do from alcohol. Anyhow this ended up leading me back to my faith and eventually finding phatmass and coming back to my catholic faith. Marijuana is a holy plant. Can it be abused and become sinfull ? Sure. But in and of itself its good and from God. And my experience with it has been more then postive. Nevermind all the medical benefits it can provide to the sick. I wonder what the Tree of Life is in Heaven desribed in revelations that is used for medecine given to us by the Most High ? Not sayin its marijuana but I'm not sayin its not either. Edited November 9, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1352453653' post='2507054'] If marijuana does get legalized and the Church came out and said its for sure a mortal sin to use it I don't know if I could with a good conscience remaain catholic. [/quote] The Church has already said that using cannabis is a mortal sin, so I do not know what to tell you, other than the fact that I find your choice of marijuana over Christ to be sad. As for myself, I know I would never choose anything over Christ. He has never abandoned me, and so I will never abandon Him. Edited November 9, 2012 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 no they haven't clown.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) [mod]personal attack[/mod] Edited November 9, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) I'm glad people like you and knight for christ lost ur militant tags....really happy about that...The Holy Spirit had to be behind that... Edited November 9, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) And anyhow I would never leave the church because it wouldn't be a mortal sin to use canibus if one had their medical card and in turn would be useing for therapuetic reasons...So my scenerio would never happen anyways... Edited November 9, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) And my personal stance is it should only be legal with a medical card...I don't think it should be legal like alcohol...I do agree with anomaly from that standpoint.... Edited November 9, 2012 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 [img]http://i.imgur.com/hVEjy.png[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1352459950' post='2507082'] And my personal stance is it should only be legal with a medical card...I don't think it should be legal like alcohol...I do agree with anomaly from that standpoint.... [/quote]if God made it and its so harmless, why should it be regulated at all? What right is there to tax it? It's much easier to grow and prepare for consumption than tobacco, so we all can have our own victory gardens our selves. It should be as ubiquitous as lawn grass. No big deal. No cartels, no taxes, no restrictions. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I don't think it's necessarily moral, but I also don't think it should be illegal, its illegality causes much more harm than good. I missed a lot of pages of this discussion, though, but I thought it should be noted that just because something's immoral does not mean that the Church teaches that it should be illegal. and I think I noticed Anomaly complaining about how Catholics can "justify anything" just because we don't have some sort of lockstep uniformity on certain moral issues... we're not supposed to. there is a great deal of intellectual freedom in the Church, contrary to the picture painted by the folks who are mad because they happen to go outside the boundaries on the few things where Church doctrine has actually constructed a non-negotiable border. anyway, I think I missed the post where it was definitively proven that the Church teaches all marijuana use is a "mortal sin"; I'm not sure I would hold to that strict of a position. certainly I think it can be a mortal sin, just like misuse of alcohol can be a mortal sin, but I don't think it's so definitively always a mortal sin and I think a lot of the efforts to distinguish marijuana from alcohol are often a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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