Forget The President, What About The Marijuana?

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1352417607' post='2506733']
I think that there's a lot of fear among religious folk because the drug is typically associated with a counter-culture that is atheistic/rebellious or new age and/or a number of other unsavory things. It's going to take a lot of years to undo that perception because its so well-ingrained that apparently people cannot approach the debate without being reasonable.
[/quote]
Personally I've had too much experience with prescription medications to consider uncontrolled substances anything other than highly dangerous. If the medical profession is so ignorant of the drugs they prescribe pushed by drug companies. What trust can be put in anyones assurance that unregulated ones are safe? But like an extreme sport you may consider the buzz worth the risk. That's up to you. But don't kid yourself that it's safe. Personally there were many good experiences from my use of Paxil and knowing what I know now I'm not sure I wouldn't have still used it. But I'm not going to play down the risks involved just to try to justify that.

[zabbazooey]

I just think it's crazy that doctors are prescribing Adderall, Ritalin, Xanax, painkillers like candy. But marijuana, a freaking PLANT grown out of the ground, that has no way of killing you (as a primary cause, such as overdose), and in most cases no addictive properties, is ILLEGAL.

But by all means let's all go to the liquor store and get some booze!

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1352417981' post='2506735']
The problem the Church has with drugs being abused or use for fun, marijuana too, is how they alter the mind, amongst other harmful effects. That is unlikely to change, so the Church is unlikely to changeher disapproval into approval.
[/quote]


There are a lot of things that "alter the mind," and so that vague label isn't really at all helpful. Caffeine is a psychoactive substance, it quite literally alters your mind (increased concentration among other qualities ) but are these effects too minor or just more acceptable "alterations" than the the effect of other drugs (minus the beloved alcohol and nicotine)? I mean, smoking a joint does not make you see unicorns or devils. If it does, there's probably something else in there or you might be precipitating schizophrenia.

I don't think people of your persuasion actually know what marijuana does in terms of its mind-alteration (with the exception of anomaly). Sure some people may get a little hippie-dippy and like use it to divine energies and "poo", but for me and many, many others (the drug is becoming more mainstream now) who use it the "mind alteration" isn't as scary or radical. It can induce a euphoric state (is that sinful?), it can decrease short-term memory WHILE you're under the influence (sinful?), it can augment your senses (sinful?), make you sleepy (sinful?) . . .

so I'm asking. You say "how they alter the mind" is the crux of the issue but that's just a catch-all phrase that is useless to me. Let's get into the specifics and talk real talk.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Ice_nine

[MIKolbe]

these ain't no church documents...

but it seems like the Popes have messed up the rotation...[color=#000000][font=Verdana][size=2]


[/size][/font][/color]
[quote]

[color=#000000][font=Verdana][size=2]

[b] The Popes hate dope[/b]
[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana][size=2]

[color=#444444][size=4][i]
Since its foundation, the Catholic Church and its Pope have been the sworn enemy of global marijuana culture.[/i][/size][/color]
[size=3]While millions of Catholic faithful around the world mourn the passing of Pope John Paul II, pot people would do well to remember that the Catholic Church has long been a leader in the global effort to exterminate marijuana and the cannabis culture.[/size]

[size=3]The late Pope John Paul II had frequently campaigned against marijuana decriminalization, saying there are no distinctions between "hard" and "soft" drugs and that using marijuana is equivalent to using heroin.[/size][/size][/font][/color]

[/quote]

This articles comes from a (shall we say) publication that really likes water pipes, but not just for plumbing.

I really don't feel comfortable posting the link here.

(granted, alot of the article is very, ummm, animated and creative about the role of the church and marijuana through the ages)

But even if they get all these other facts wrong...and tremendously wrong; would they really be so stupid to think the Church approves or is ambiguous about marijuana use? Wouldn't it be in their interests to find the Church as an ally if there was any possibility (regardless how slight) that the Church taught anything except seeing marijuana use as morally bad?

I am not arguing if it's addictive, bad for you, alters your mindset, or any of that... it just seems the Church steps flat-footed here, with little, if any ambiguity...

which pretty much smells of very rotten elderberries for everyone...

but it is what it is...

[Anomaly]

Catholics always can justify just about anything. Just disagree based on your personal interpretation, note the Chirch did not speak infallibly, and wa-la, your conscience is golden. Pro pot, anti pot. Etc. etc. just as long as you don't masterbate or eat beef on Fridays.

[Mark of the Cross]

[b] Effects of cannabis[/b]

The effects of any drug (including cannabis) vary from person to person. How cannabis affects a person depends on many things including their size, weight and health, also whether the person is used to taking it and whether other drugs are taken around the same time. The effects of any drug also depend on the amount taken.
[b]There is no safe level of drug use. [/b]Use of any drug always carries some risk—even medications can produce unwanted side effects. It is important to be careful when taking any type of drug.
[b] Immediate effects [/b]
[list]
[*]loss of inhibition

[*]spontaneous laughter

[*]quiet and reflective mood

[*]affected perception including sound, colour and other sensations

[*]confusion

[*]altered thinking and memory

[*]anxiety

[*]mild paranoia
[/list]
[list]
[*]altered vision

[*]reddened/bloodshot eyes

[*]relaxation

[*]sleepiness

[*]reduced coordination and balance

[*]increased heart rate

[*]low blood pressure

[*]increased appetite.
[/list]
[b] Low to moderate doses[/b]

Low to moderate doses of cannabis can produce effects that last 2 to 4 hours after smoking. The effects of ingested (eaten) cannabis usually start within 1 hour. Some of the effects include:
[b] Higher doses[/b]
[list]
[*]confusion

[*]restlessness

[*]excitement

[*]hallucinations
[/list]
[list]
[*]anxiety or panic

[*]detachment from reality

[*]decreased reaction time

[*]paranoia.
[/list]
[b] Long-term effects [/b]

Long-term cannabis use can have many effects on an individual:
[b]Brain:[/b] Impaired concentration, memory and learning ability.[b] [/b]

[b]Lungs:[/b] Smoking cannabis can result in a sore throat, asthma and bronchitis.[b] [/b]
[b]Hormones: [/b]Cannabis can affect hormone production. Research shows that some cannabis users have a lowered sex drive. Irregular menstrual cycles and lowered sperm counts have also been reported.[b] [/b]
[b]Immune system:[/b] There is some concern that cannabis smoking may impair the functioning of the immune system.[b] [/b][b] [/b][b] [/b]
[b]Mental health:[/b] Cannabis use, especially heavy and regular use, may be linked to a condition known as a “drug-induced psychosis”, or “cannabis psychosis”.
There is some evidence that regular cannabis use increases the likelihood of psychotic symptoms in people who are already vulnerable due to a personal or family history of mental illness. Cannabis also appears to make psychotic symptoms worse for people with schizophrenia, and using cannabis can lower the chances of recovery from a psychotic episode.

Source [url="http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/drug-facts/cannabis?gclid=COut6PvRwLMCFWY8pgodVxwApQ"]Australian drug foundation.[/url]

Edited November 9, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1352421473' post='2506764']
Catholics always can justify just about anything. Just disagree based on your personal interpretation, note the Chirch did not speak infallibly, and wa-la, your conscience is golden. Pro pot, anti pot. Etc. etc. just as long as you don't masterbate or eat beef on Fridays.
[/quote]
are you talking about voting for a pro abortion candidate or pot use?

oh wait..nvrmnd..

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1352421787' post='2506769']
are you talking about voting for a pro abortion candidate or pot use?

oh wait..nvrmnd..
[/quote]
And maybe we now know who masterbates and eats beef on Fridays.

I just realised something. That list of effects from Mj is the same as what I get from posting on Phatmass! especially the spontainious laughter!

[Cherie]

[quote name='zabbazooey' timestamp='1352418593' post='2506742']
I just think it's crazy that doctors are prescribing Adderall, Ritalin, Xanax, painkillers like candy. But marijuana, a freaking PLANT grown out of the ground, that has no way of killing you (as a primary cause, such as overdose), and in most cases no addictive properties, is ILLEGAL.
[/quote]

I think it's odd that people assume just because it's a plant that it is somehow "natural" or not bad for you. As an aspiring herbalist, I know that many plants used for treating remedies can cause all sorts of negative effects, sometimes serious. And where do you think the components of many drugs come from? So yeah...just because it's a "freaking plant" doesn't mean it can't be dangerous.

[zabbazooey]

I've read up on my cannabis. Other than feeling a little dopey afterwards and short term memory effects from abuse (which, in some studies, the effects go away after abstinence), the risk of lung cancer if you choose to smoke it (now they make lollipops, lozenges, butter, and of course BROWNIES! ) it is much safer than a lot of other legal substances. Like booze. Prescription drugs. Whatever else, ya know.

[Jesus_lol]

EFFECTS LIST # Alcohol.

POSITIVE
relaxation
mood lift, happiness, giddiness
increased sociability
lowered inhibitions / reduced social anxiety
analgesia (kills pain)

NEUTRAL
slurred speech
flushed skin
drowsiness, sleepiness
nystagmus, difficulty focusing eyes
changed (often increased) response to sexual stimuli
tolerance with repeated use within a few days
changed aesthetic appreciation: normally beautiful things can seem ugly, things normally seen as ugly judged beautiful.
mild visual distortions at high doses


NEGATIVE
(negative side effects increase with higher doses)
decreased coordination
nausea, vomiting (vomiting while unconscious can kill)
reduced impulse control
emotional volatility (anger, violence, sadness, etc)
reduced ability to attain/maintain erection in most males
increased difficulty in achieving orgasm in some females
frequent urination (more with beer or wine), diuretic effect
dizziness and confusion
blackouts and memory loss at high doses
coma and death at extreme doses
brain and liver damage (cirrhosis) with heavy use
lowered inhibitions and increased confusion can lead to unwanted and negative sexual encounters (date rape)
hangover, lasting 12-36 hours, from mild to severe after heavy use
fetal damage in pregnant women at high dose or frequency
Withdrawal after long term use/addiction can cause severe health problems and/or death.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1352419887' post='2506748']



There are a lot of things that "alter the mind," and so that vague label isn't really at all helpful. Caffeine is a psychoactive substance, it quite literally alters your mind (increased concentration among other qualities ) but are these effects too minor or just more acceptable "alterations" than the the effect of other drugs (minus the beloved alcohol and nicotine)? I mean, smoking a joint does not make you see unicorns or devils. If it does, there's probably something else in there or you might be precipitating schizophrenia.

I don't think people of your persuasion actually know what marijuana does in terms of its mind-alteration (with the exception of anomaly). Sure some people may get a little hippie-dippy and like use it to divine energies and "poo", but for me and many, many others (the drug is becoming more mainstream now)
who use it the "mind alteration" isn't as scary or radical. It can induce a euphoric state (is that sinful?), it can decrease short-term memory WHILE you're under the influence (sinful?), it can augme. nt your senses (sinful?), make you sleepy (sinful?) . . .

so I'm asking. You say "how they alter the mind" is the crux of the issue but that's just a catch-all phrase that is useless to me. Let's get into the specifics and talk real talk.
[/quote]

I'm saying... what Apo said and even a little bit of what MIkolbe said.

The Church says no. The Holy Father does not approve.

Roma locuta est, causa finita est.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1352422105' post='2506771']

And maybe we now know who masterbates and eats beef on Fridays.

I just realised something. That list of effects from Mj is the same as what I get from posting on Phatmass! especially the spontainious laughter!
[/quote] I save Fridays for beef tacos.

[Anomaly]

Jesus lulz,
Are there any potential dangers if pot is used or abused?

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1352428861' post='2506880']
I'm saying... [...] and [size=8]even a little bit of what MIkolbe said.[/size]
[/quote]

there's bobsledding in hades? wha....