OnlySunshine Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I've been reluctant to post in this thread but I think we've gotten to the point where it's time to let this thread die. It's obvious Gemma is not going to return to answer questions as her mind is on other matters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inperpetuity Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I am not personally involved in this project nor do I know Gemma, and I have no credentials in the religious life, I am just a faithful lay Catholic, but I would like to give my opinion of some things I have read here, and with all due respect to Sr. Laurel as well. Yes, Gemma did start this thread, but she is not under any obligation to answer anybody except those who are genuinely interested in this project and even that is really up to her discretion. The moderators could have closed this, but they haven't. Personally I think it should be closed, but it is not up to me. But it seems very clear that Gemma is playing with lives here without demonstrating any competency to do so. And this: The answer is clear: Only a fool or a pretender would do so. Unfortunately, the world is full of fools and pretenders who are vulnerable to one another because of desperation or ambition mixed with better motives as well. Is it moral for pretenders to exploit the desperate and foolish? I would argue no, it is not. No one has the right to play with anyone's lives. I would say that could be the case if we really knew Gemma was intentionally exploiting those who we know are vulnerable desperate fools. This is just not clear to me though. How do we know Gemma is pretending? For one thing, I see nothing wrong with helping a group of women to start an association of the faithful with the intention of living according to Carmelite spirituality with the hope of becoming something more. How can we assume that these women are vulnerable desperate fools? Many of the saints were considered fools among other things. It is always possible that there could be some delusion in any new project of this sort, but I definitely don't see evil deeds or intentions in it and God can bring good fruit out of those who are trying to please Him although imperfectly. As for some of the terms and words Gemma uses, I don't see what whether we happen to like them or not has anything to do with anything really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumiere Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think Sister Laurel is looking at this issue through the eyes of someone who is a "professional". Her "profession" is that of a religious, specifically a hermit. Each profession has its standards and its professional or legal language. What to non-religious may look like criticism or nit picking is really someone who feels she is upholding the standards and language of her profession. You would not expect less of a doctor or a teacher, why would you expect less from a professional religious. And yes, I realize there is the element of the pun in this posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 THIS is why I no longer like vocation station. This issue has been discussed over and over ... and all of a sudden, after the discussion was DONE, BAM there it is. This is not a debate ... dUSt has actually said that any groups who do not have diocesan recognition are off limits, THEREFORE there is nothing that should be discussed any longer. SrLaurel -- your last post shows a lack of charity. You've stated your opinions multiple times, and have every right to do so. But the last post ("Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:03 PM") was unnecessary. Let the facts stand, and no need to go any further. The Truth will always prevail so no need to help it along. As I said ... sometimes on the board it seems as though it is a back and forth in an attempt to "prove oneself right." But it seems very clear that Gemma is playing with lives here without demonstrating any competency to do so. And this: The answer is clear: Only a fool or a pretender would do so. Unfortunately, the world is full of fools and pretenders who are vulnerable to one another because of desperation or ambition mixed with better motives as well. Is it moral for pretenders to exploit the desperate and foolish? I would argue no, it is not. And this post is completely 100% uncharitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) The Truth will always prevail so no need to help it along. This is rather shocking. Try applying this to other truths that are not currently prevailing and see if you'd agree with this statement there. I doubt you would. It eliminates the whole profession of teaching. If you're following this thread and getting emails every time someone posts, log in, come to the thread, and click "Unfollow" in the top right. No one is forcing you to follow this. Others are benefiting from it. It has not been focused on Gemma all the time. It is up to the moderators to close a thread. Do you think it's charitable to publicly call others uncharitable? Edited January 9, 2013 by curiousing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) This is rather shocking. Try applying this to other truths that are not currently prevailing and see if you'd agree with this statement there. I doubt you would. It eliminates the whole profession of teaching. If you're following this thread and getting emails every time someone posts, log in, come to the thread, and click "Unfollow" in the top right. No one is forcing you to follow this. Others are benefiting from it. It has not been focused on Gemma all the time. It is up to the moderators to close a thread. Do you think it's charitable to publicly call others uncharitable? Well, at times you do need to say when things are going too far. Right now ... it is uncharitable. And to not state it as it is IS wrong. Do I think what I said is wrong -- no. Especially when it IS uncharitable. I'm ready to step out of VS altogether. Again -- the whole environment in here has really negatively changed. And it is a shame. With respect to my statement (i.e. the Truth will prevail) ... what I mean (and you probably didn't get it -- i.e. because of the way I may have said it) is that there is a truth. One that God knows. That always prevails -- and that, teaching wise, is not wrong (that's why I used a capital T in truth). Edited January 9, 2013 by cmariadiaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hello All- Hope all is well. The incessant bickering in this thread has run its course. This thread is closed. In the future, if you have issues with what is posted, please attempt a charitable private message to the person directly. The choice is yours, but it seems like the most Christian thing to do (as a relative outsider reading this). Pax, MIKolbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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