dUSt Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351830592' post='2502707'] Oh, but I'm sure I'm wrong. You should just listen to his propaganda website for his official positions, and ignore it when he slips up and actually says the same stuff he's been saying for decades of public life and indicates that he'll do the same stuff he's done before. Ignore that part, it's his [i]official[/i] carefully crafted positions that matter. [/quote] You must not be aware that before the HHS Mandate was added to Obamacare it had the support of many bishops. Take out the HHS mandate and any public funding of abortion, and there is nothing immoral about it. So unless you are putting your "politics above your faith" like many have accused me of doing, I don't see how arguing against Obamacare really helps your case that Romney is evil, as he's already said he's going to get rid of the HHS mandate part of it and not allow any public funding of abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 His official position still doesn't change the [b]fact [/b]that he "deflected a question about abortion issues by using the "health of the mother" exemption, and by claiming that he would not do anything related to abortion in his administration." I provided the evidence, he really did that, he deflected the question by saying those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351869727' post='2502932'] His official position still doesn't change the [b]fact [/b]that he "deflected a question about abortion issues by using the "health of the mother" exemption, and by claiming that he would not do anything related to abortion in his administration." I provided the evidence, he really did that, he deflected the question by saying those things. [/quote] Show me where he said "he would not do anything related to abortion in his administration". Show me, and I will apologize. If not, please retract the lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [b]October 10, 2012[/b] "There's [b]no legislation with regards to abortion [/b]that I'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351869686' post='2502931'] You must not be aware that before the HHS Mandate was added to Obamacare it had the support of many bishops. Take out the HHS mandate and any public funding of abortion, and there is nothing immoral about it. So unless you are putting your "politics above your faith" like many have accused me of doing, I don't see how arguing against Obamacare really helps your case that Romney is evil, as he's already said he's going to get rid of the HHS mandate part of it and not allow any public funding of abortion. [/quote] Those quotes were pieced together in an attempt to show that I believe he would not rescind the HHS mandate. But I was also simply providing the facts because I know many people here are against the Healthcare mandate system wholesale, or they believe that Romney has only supported it on a state level and that there are no indications that he would support it on a Federal level. So I had to correct that, be supportive of it or opposed to it, that's fine, but recognize that Romney is likely to keep the national mandate in place; which provides a framework under which it is possible he will do something very much like the HHS mandate. Remember, Obama promised conscience exemptions for his system too. Remember Notre Dame? Obama's official position was that there would be conscience exemptions. It's funny that you bring up the Bishops; the bishops believed Obama in just the same way you're believing Romney. We see how well that turned out for them, I wonder how it will turn out for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351869929' post='2502934'] [b]October 10, 2012[/b] "There's [b]no legislation with regards to abortion [/b]that I'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda," [/quote] Wow dude. You said he said: "he would not do anything related to abortion in his administration". And you post this quote as your proof: [i]"There's no legislation with regards to abortion that I'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda"[/i]... Ignoring the fact that[b] in the same interview[/b] he said he would reinstate the Mexico City policy that bans U.S. foreign aid dollars from being used to do abortions. I'm done with you. You are not being honest, it is now clear you are not interested in an unbiased dialogue, and your integrity has been compromised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351869929' post='2502934'] [b]October 10, 2012[/b] "There's [b]no legislation with regards to abortion [/b]that I'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda," [/quote]Didn't you just recently point out that there was no pending legislation regarding abortion. So what's wrong with what Romney said? Also, keep in mind, it's a close race, so Romney isn't going to say anything that is going to make him lose the women's vote because the Dems are going to immediately put it on the TV as Romeny attacking women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1351871282' post='2502946'] Didn't you just recently point out that there was no pending legislation regarding abortion. So what's wrong with what Romney said? [/quote] There is nothing wrong with what Romney said. Al is using that single quote as the foundation for saying he will not do anything related to abortion in his administration. Al knows better. I am now convinced he is intentionally misleading people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 there is no pending legislation with regard to abortion because no one's seriously offering it, and they'll be less likely to offer it with Romney at the helm. I don't think it's good that there's no pending abortion related legislation, I just think it's a sad fact. dUSt, I am not being dishonest. the quote clearly says he doesn't plan any abortion-related legislation, the fact that he contradicts himself is his own problem, not mine. I know all about the Mexico City Policy and have continuously pointed to the studies that show that the Mexico City Policy does nothing to reduce abortions, many studies actually show them increasing during times when the Mexico City Policy is in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 My post included another post wherein he said Roe v. Wade is the settled law... he said something similar before defending his pro-choice positions in a previous race. Yes, I know he has contradicted himself and said that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. The fact that he contradicts himself does not take away from him making those statements. The pro-choice pro-democrats interpret these contradictions as attempts to mislead voters into thinking he's not as pro-life as he really is. I have explained again and again that it's not just these quotes, it's these quotes coupled with his longstanding pro-choice record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 (edited) [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351872405' post='2502955'] There is nothing wrong with what Romney said. Al is using that single quote as the foundation for saying he will not do anything related to abortion in his administration. Al knows better. I am now convinced he is intentionally misleading people. [/quote]I think it's fairer to not speculate on anyone's intent, either Al's or Romney's. I think Al's intent is to differentiate the difference between political equivocating, and the Church's stance on abortion. I think Romney is trying to get elected and playing both sides, exactly like Obama and every other politician in a close race. It's an unfortunate aspect of political reality and what colors fickle voter's opinion. A grain of salt, benefit of the doubt... What are the Party's platforms? The platforms are broad ideals that reflect the ideology and wants of the voting supporters. Looking at the two Party's platforms, what the party's have done, and the opinion of what matters to the voters who support them are all reasonable considerations to fiddler and evaluate what the two politicians are saying. Both men are appealing to the marginally opinionated voters at this stage in the game. They cannot issue bold statements or take definitive stances because they would be an immediate turn-off to the "undecided" that's crucial. Edited November 2, 2012 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 btw, I know it's a very common thing, but I think we should try to refrain from accusations that the other side is being dishonest when they fail to follow the same line of reasoning that we do. I actually missed the link you were making in your previous post to the inclusion of the Mexico City Policy issue in that article. If I had noticed it, I would have addressed it in the way I addressed it in my subsequent post rather than just re-posting the quote. I realize that to someone who understood that you were making that link to the Mexico City Policy being included in the article (which I didn't get, I was unsure why you were using my quote as evidence that I was self-contradicting), my re-statement of the quote would have been a very annoying response, so I apologize for the confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351872521' post='2502957'] dUSt, I am not being dishonest. the quote clearly says he doesn't plan any abortion-related legislation, [/quote] That is drastically different than "he would not do anything related to abortion in his administration". You are misleading. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351872740' post='2502958'] I have explained again and again that it's not just these quotes, it's these quotes coupled with his longstanding pro-choice record. [/quote] He use to be pro-choice man. One does not flip a switch and go from 100% pro-choice to 100% pro-life. Conversion is a process. You are unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt. Instead, you bash his conversion. Please, never volunteer for any pro-life events. I hate to think of how you'll treat the women who use to be pro-choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351872521' post='2502957'] there is no pending legislation with regard to abortion because no one's seriously offering it, and they'll be less likely to offer it with Romney at the helm. [/quote]You keep bringing this up to tear down Romney, but what's the point and effect? It's either R or D that will have the significant political power with the Presidency in 2013-2016. So if the Democrats and Obama have the Presidency for the next four years, there's any hope that it's more likely any legislation will be offered? And if it's likely, considering the Dem party's explicit ideology that Government SHOULD NOT restrict abortion and restriction should be vigorously defended against, there is any hope it could pass? That ideology is the reason why the Mexico City Policy is toothless. [quote]dUSt, I am not being dishonest. the quote clearly says he doesn't plan any abortion-related legislation, the fact that he contradicts himself is his own problem, not mine. I know all about the Mexico City Policy and have continuously pointed to the studies that show that the Mexico City Policy does nothing to reduce abortions, many studies actually show them increasing during times when the Mexico City Policy is in place. [/quote]Which Party's ideology forces comprimise in legislation like this that makes it a political show? Pro-life proponents propose legislation (Repub's look good submitting it because a significant amount of their supporters want it), and the Pro-abortion proponents rip the teeth out (Dem's look good neutering it because a significant amount of their supporters don't want Government Restrictions). You are advocating crippling the Republican party because it isn't pro-life enough, but the result is, power goes to the Democrats who are adamently against Government restriction. I don't think you are being intellectually honest in evaluating the real world consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts