Voting For Anyone Other Than Romney Is Pro-obama

[missionseeker]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351793894' post='2502098']

But if you look at the arguments that Aloysius is making, your priest is is justified in his line of thinking. Aloysius said it was not sinful to vote Romney, and he has said Romney is the same as Obama, so logically, it is not sinful to vote Obama either.
[/quote]


If you can use that logic, you should be able to see this.





Obama is anti-Catholic and Catholics who vote for him are going against the Church (and thus endangering their souls)

Third party voters are voting for Obama

Catholics who vote third party are going to Hell.



It gets old. And it's just wrong.

[dUSt]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1351796767' post='2502116']
If you can use that logic, you should be able to see this.
Obama is anti-Catholic and Catholics who vote for him are going against the Church (and thus endangering their souls)
Third party voters are voting for Obama
Catholics who vote third party are going to Hell.
It gets old. And it's just wrong.
[/quote]
That is a lot of leaps and assumptions, but if you mellow that down a large tad, that is actually very similar to how I formed my own personal conscience when trying to decide how I'd vote.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351747296' post='2501850']
Voting for anyone other than Romney is pro-Obama.

This is not a moral or theological statement, it is simply a realistic one, based on [b]fact[/b].

So, if you agree with Obama, and enjoy your religious freedom being destroyed, and abortion on-demand, vote for Obama or a third party candidate.

If you value your religious freedom, and disagree with abortion, vote for Romney.

One week before the election, those are the only two viable choices that will have any real affect. Anything else makes you irrelevant.

Thanks,
dUSt - Phounder of phatmass, and leader of you all
[/quote]


Whether you mean it to be a moral statement, actions have moral consequence.
[quote]So, if you agree with Obama, and enjoy your religious freedom being destroyed, and abortion on-demand, vote for Obama or a third party candidate.[/quote]

Which paired with the idea that a vote for Obama is immoral = a vote for a third party is immoral.
[quote]

This is not a moral or theological statement, it is simply a realistic one, based on [b]fact[/b].
[/quote]

Fact is that Obama will be LUCKY to get 35% of the vote where I live. If we are going by the idea that a third party vote helps the winner, then I am indirectly helping Romney, not Obama because states are the way it is counted. Not popular national vote and that;'s a distinction that I see no one making.

[MissyP89]

You formed your conscience to lead you to what you believed was the best, most moral choice in a very difficult situation.

Those that will be voting third party have done the same thing.

We're all acting with the same intention here, dUSt. We all want to make the best decision we can to honor God and protect life. We may disagree on what that decision should be, but at the end of the day, we all have the same goal in mind.

Please try to see that.

[dUSt]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1351797751' post='2502123']
You formed your conscience to lead you to what you believed was the best, most moral choice in a very difficult situation.

Those that will be voting third party have done the same thing.

We're all acting with the same intention here, dUSt. We all want to make the best decision we can to honor God and protect life. We may disagree on what that decision should be, but at the end of the day, we all have the same goal in mind.

Please try to see that.
[/quote]
I do see that. My purpose of debating is to change your mind if you are planning to vote third party. Just talking it out. Are you closed to dialogue on the matter? Are we all suppose to form our consciences in a personal bubble?

Or, does it work that if you have already formed your conscience and made a decision, that is it--no more talking. Your conscience has been formed and therefore cannot be changed.

Again, I am not condemning anybody's morality. It is moral to vote third party. I'm simply not willing to end the dialogue of how best to use our votes until after the election is over.

[missionseeker]

I already voted.

[dUSt]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1351798273' post='2502126']
I already voted.
[/quote]
OK, bye. My words do not concern you.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351798148' post='2502125']
I do see that. My purpose of debating is to change your mind if you are planning to vote third party. Just talking it out. Are you closed to dialogue on the matter? Are we all suppose to form our consciences in a personal bubble?

Or, does it work that if you have already formed your conscience and made a decision, that is it--no more talking. Your conscience has been formed and therefore cannot be changed.

Again, I am not condemning anybody's morality. It is moral to vote third party. I'm simply not willing to end the dialogue of how best to use our votes until after the election is over.
[/quote]
If you're really trying to change our minds, you're not doing a very good job. I think it is insulting most of us and truthfully, it has left me pretty p'ssed.

I think we've been open to discussion up till this point. As others have said, it crossed the line. At this point I'm just trying to defend my beliefs.

[dUSt]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1351798860' post='2502130']
If you're really trying to change our minds, you're not doing a very good job. I think it is insulting most of us and truthfully, it has left me pretty p'ssed.

I think we've been open to discussion up till this point. As others have said, it crossed the line. At this point I'm just trying to defend my beliefs.
[/quote]

I have been extremely harsh because most of my replies have been to Aloysius, Nihil and Winchester. They like it when I'm rough with them.

The unfortunate downside to that is everyone else who is reading may assume that I am addressing them in the same manner. That is certainly not my intent, and I don't have a good solution for how to better communicate with many different people all at the same time with completely different sensitivities and tolerance thresholds. If I am too meek, Winchester will make fun of me and crush me with his colorful fancy talk. If I am too bold, I hurt people unintentionally.

Sorry. I've tried to repeat that I am not condemning anyone's conscience or faith as much as I could.

[missionseeker]

Perhaps better methods of dialogue?

Instead of saying "Third party votes are pro-Obama" what about something like "Are third party votes actually helpful in the long run?" (or short run whatever)

No one here is pro-Obama (not even really Kujo, lol. but probably Hasan now that I think about it.) So saying that the decisions that they (third party voters) have consciously, thoughtfully, deliberately debated and sorted out sometimes after months of grappling with the question of how to vote automattically puts people on the defensive. And people on the defensive are not great dialogue partners.

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351795820' post='2502112']
I am a pro-life Democrat.

The only thing I have surrendered to is the gangnam style.
[/quote]
Fair enough.

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351800243' post='2502142']
If I am too meek, Winchester will make fun of me and crush me with his colorful fancy talk.
[/quote]

I WOULD NEVER!

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1351783105' post='2502039']
Even Auburn fans bleed red during the elections.
[/quote]

I would've propped this post anyway, but you get extra special props for this line alone. *high five*

[LinaSt.Cecilia2772]

A wise sister told me one time when we were conversing about voting, is that everyone has freedom of conscience. Meaning that everyone has a right to form their conscience in their own way and act on it.

Why can't people just respect that right? To me it's kinda ironic because many people are voting based off violations of conscience, yet they are trying to tell other people who have formed theirs to "help change their minds." It's kinda ridiculous.

I'm 18. I have already voted. I have kept up with politics for a long time due to my parents being very involved in it and their want for me to be exposed to various circumstances. My conscience has been forming for a long time now, and I can tell you that whatever my conscience tells me is between me and God.

I am Catholic. I try to understand as much of Catholic teaching as I can and act on it. But in good conscience, I refuse to vote based off of one issue. Jesus NEVER taught to help just ONE issue, and be blind to the others. Because of this, I honestly don't believe that Romney will do anything good for this country as far as economics go, healthcare, strength of the middle class, education, help for the poor and the many other factors that will make this country thrive. I don't agree with every policy Obama has put into place, and I sure as hell don't want to contribute to the intrinsic evils, but reality and life aren't black and white. There is so much gray in between that needs to be addressed just as much as the pro-life movement does.

I am a Catholic who is a democrat, and a Catholic who voted for Obama

Call me a liberal and say I'm going to hell all you want, but ultimately it's God's judgment upon me and my relationship with God who will be the judge of that. And let's say that I have a relationship with God and it's continuously growing because God's love is unconditional and everlasting no matter how much we sin.

Don't judge me based off a vote, a vote is a tiny part of who I am as a person. It surely doesn't define me or anyone.

I have been wanting to say that for a long time on PM, especially since there have been thread after threads over the same thing about the elections. I don't want to debate over my personal choice and conscience. Please respect that.

Edited November 1, 2012 by LinaSt.Cecilia2772

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' timestamp='1351804578' post='2502188']

I would've propped this post anyway, but you get extra special props for this line alone. *high five*
[/quote]


haha. I was hoping an Alabamian would read that.

Also: Seriously???? Roy Moore????? what tha' fa fa fa fa fonze? WERE THEY THINKING???