Voting For Anyone Other Than Romney Is Pro-obama

[Winchester]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1351781878' post='2502029']
Hahaha, I think dUSt has had political feelings as strong as Winnie's since I first started posting here. It's rare to get him to post like this, but I think it's one of three topics in which you'll really get his opinion.
[/quote]
Tacos.

And penguins.

[missionseeker]

dUSt, the title of this thread is saying that voting for anyone except Romney is voting FOR someone who is contrary to all of the things that Catholics hold important when considering a vote, the moral choices, and the ones that have political consequences that will be contrary to the teachings of the church.

I live in Alabama. There are three democrats on the entire ballot. Including Barack Obama. People who used to run as democrats have switched to Republican - partly because they think the Democrats have crossed the moral line. Partly because in Alabama, if you run as a democrat, you are unlikely to win. The only candidate that Alabama democrats seriously think is viable is for the Chief Justice and they're not even running him based on his merits. they're running him because his opponent is a federally indicted criminal and cooky. Last time he was in office he cost the state millions of dollars. There have been several politicians who were unwilling to change their party affiliation and moved out of state to run in more blue leaning states. In Alabama, a vote for Gary Johnson or Ron Paul will in no way help Obama win this election. Alabama is red. Even Auburn fans bleed red during the elections.

What I have done is to evaluate my choices based on the previous [i]actions [/i]of the candidates. Often, I was running the line of Princess Bride through my head while reading - "We are men of action. Lies do not become us" Looking at the actions of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan since 1996 (well, not Ryan, obviously, but as far back as his record goes), I cannot in good conscience vote for him. His past actions include everything from voting for big government (and in Romney's case enforcing it through his gubernatorial mandates) to signing laws that increase abortions tax dollars and support war crimes. I cannot vote for a person based on what they say will do. I've never met a politician (and I used to hang out at the state capitol and chill with them) who did what they said they would 100% of the time no matter what the party was.

Knowing that Alabama is going to Romney anyway and knowing that Romney's actions don't mesh with the words coming out of his mouth (and Ryan said [though i don't remember the quote exactly] that he occasionally has to vote against his principles so that later he can vote for them (Whaaa????)) I can in good conscience vote for someone who is not Romney. And who sure as heck isn't Obama.

I understand that not everyone will make that same judgement call. I respect the people who disagree with mine. But you're saying that I'm voting pro- Obama (hence, pro- anti-Catholicism, and others have taken that even further and said hence going to Hell) and that's not only insulting to me as a Catholic who voted by conscience, but as a person who spent MONTHS informing myself and weighing my options.

[MissyP89]

Something tells me that the devil is laughing his butt off at the division here right now.

dUSt, please don't alienate your phamily by holding politics above Christ on this site. Adrestia's right -- you've gone way too far.

Edited November 1, 2012 by MissyP89

[Lil Red]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1351783105' post='2502039']I understand that not everyone will make that same judgement call. I respect the people who disagree with mine. But you're saying that I'm voting pro- Obama (hence, pro- anti-Catholicism, and others have taken that even further and said hence going to Hell) and that's not only insulting to me as a Catholic who voted by conscience, but as a person who spent MONTHS informing myself and weighing my options.[/quote]

exactly.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1351791768' post='2502070']
Something tells me that the devil is laughing his butt off at the division here right now.

dUSt, please don't alienate your phamily by holding politics above Christ on this site. Adrestia's right -- you've gone way too far.
[/quote]
Division is bridged by forgiveness, humility, and charity and can be built from either side.

[dUSt]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1351781878' post='2502029']
Hahaha, I think dUSt has had political feelings as strong as Winnie's since I first started posting here. It's rare to get him to post like this, but I think it's one of three topics in which you'll really get his opinion.
[/quote]
What are the other two? haha

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351792892' post='2502082']
What are the other two? haha
[/quote]

Ahem...

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1351782105' post='2502034']
Tacos.

And penguins.
[/quote]

[dUSt]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1351783105' post='2502039']
dUSt, the title of this thread is saying that voting for anyone except Romney is voting FOR someone who is contrary to all of the things that Catholics hold important when considering a vote, the moral choices, and the ones that have political consequences that will be contrary to the teachings of the church.
[/quote]
Remember, the first line of my post after the title was this, "t[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]his is not a moral or theological statement".[/font][/color]

[font="Open Sans, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]In other words, I am not addressing the moral implications of any of this. That is what your consciences are for. I attempted to approach this from a logical standpoint rather than a moral one. Anyone who jumped to the conclusion of me condemning their morality did that one their own. I've repeatedly said many times in several threads that I do not think it is immoral to withhold your vote or vote third party.[/color][/font]

[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]My arguments on this matter or not trying to convince you of the morality of how to vote, but rather, the practicality and strategy for accomplishing goals.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]I've repeated this over and over, yet, am still being attacked by people who claim I am somehow condemning their conscience or judging their faith.[/font][/color]

[Slappo]

My parish preist said at a parish meeting that voting for Obama was not sinful and we could vote for him if we weren't casting our vote for the purpose of supporing intrinsic evils, but for supporing other policies.






















99%+ of this forum think he's wrong

Edit: removed some wording. I'm on a government computer and have to be non-partisan in my posts while at work.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Slappo

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351793340' post='2502088']
Remember, the first line of my post after the title was this, "t[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]his is not a moral or theological statement".[/font][/color]

[font=Open Sans, sans-serif][color=#282828]In other words, I am not addressing the moral implications of any of this. That is what your consciences are for. I attempted to approach this from a logical standpoint rather than a moral one. Anyone who jumped to the conclusion of me condemning their morality did that one their own. I've repeatedly said many times in several threads that I do not think it is immoral to withhold your vote or vote third party.[/color][/font]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]My arguments on this matter or not trying to convince you of the morality of how to vote, but rather, the practicality and strategy for accomplishing goals.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=Open Sans', sans-serif]I've repeated this over and over, yet, am still being attacked by people who claim I am somehow condemning their conscience or judging their faith.[/font][/color]
[/quote]
Practicality?

You're running a website dedicated to a religion whose Savior was nailed to a cross by half-wit centurions, leaving all the bad people in the world, instead of just wiping them out. We cherish martyrs--people killed because they wouldn't pretend to not believe something. Pretend! We keep their relics in altars.

HMS Practicality has sailed away.

[eagle_eye222001]

3 pages.....the umpteenth thread...and have we gotten anywhere productive?

A discussion is only good when both sides acknowledge facts. When one side just ignores the valid explanations, and keeps parroting the same fallacious lines and attacks.......

Again......the 3rd Party Rebel Alliance acknowledges the legitimacy of a Catholic voting for Romney on the basis of the Principle of the Lesser Evil. It's a cruddy and weak argument for this election cycle that I and several others have pointed out without a logical response, but it is recognized as a valid option nonetheless.

The war on the 3rd Party Rebel Alliance on allegedly throwing the election to Obama however is not justified.




If your aim is to convince us of the practical strategy of accomplishing goals, then it would make sense to respond to the points made by the 3rd Party Rebel Alliance. These points on Romney have gone unanswered and ignored. Therefore, any further posting is simply not a discussion but rather a rhetoric flame war.


If your aim is to not attack the 3rd Party Rebel Alliance, then title your threads and rephrase so they don't strongly suggest that. This is as bad as the liberal media that leads with a false headline, but then clears it up in the fine print that few people read.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1351793410' post='2502089']
My parish preist said at a parish meeting that voting for Obama was not sinful and we could vote for him if we weren't casting our vote for the purpose of supporting intrinsic evils, but for supporting other policies.

Needless to say my wife, myself, and 99%+ of this forum think he's wrong
[/quote]

But if you look at the arguments that Aloysius is making, your priest is is justified in his line of thinking. Aloysius said it was not sinful to vote Romney, and he has said Romney is the same as Obama, so logically, it is not sinful to vote Obama either.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1351793648' post='2502092']
Practicality?

You're running a website dedicated to a religion whose Savior was nailed to a cross by half-wit centurions, leaving all the bad people in the world, instead of just wiping them out. We cherish martyrs--people killed because they wouldn't pretend to not believe something. Pretend! We keep their relics in altars.

HMS Practicality has sailed away.
[/quote]
Your fancy words don't scare me.
#Exit-Fantasy-Land

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351793955' post='2502100']
Your fancy words don't scare me.
#Exit-Fantasy-Land
[/quote]
I'd accept your surrender, but you already gave it to the GOP.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1351794058' post='2502102']
I'd accept your surrender, but you already gave it to the GOP.
[/quote]
I am a pro-life Democrat.

The only thing I have surrendered to is the gangnam style.