HisChildForever Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but - what exactly is the point of voting third party (or writing in)? Is it out of personal conviction, some sort of statement, or do you legit think your guy will win (I highly doubt the latter). I'm all for sticking to what you believe in or thumbing your nose at the government, whatever, but do you think your vote (in this election, I mean) is improving the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1352054957' post='2503972'] I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but - what exactly is the point of voting third party (or writing in)? Is it out of personal conviction, some sort of statement, or do you legit think your guy will win (I highly doubt the latter). I'm all for sticking to what you believe in or thumbing your nose at the government, whatever, but do you think your vote (in this election, I mean) is improving the country? [/quote] Not offended! I like honest questions! For me, it's more of a personal conviction and a statement. I'm not silly enough to believe that my vote will actually help get a third party candidate elected in this election. I don't like Obama, and I don't like Romney. My conscience won't let me vote for either. I'm also a resident of Washington State, so I know that my state's electoral college votes are going to Obama. If I were a resident of Ohio, where I'm currently going to school, I would much more heavily consider voting for Romney. So because of that, I've decided to add my vote to the pool of people voting third party. I don't like how the Republicans and Democrats are becoming more and more entrenched in their ideological divisions while simultaneously becoming more and more similar in their practices. I hate that the Republican party just has to pay lip service to the pro-life cause and then gets to hold thousands of Catholic votes hostage. I think getting more people into office with different ideas is good for our government. It's not about thumbing my nose at the government - it's about trying to get the government to be a little bit better. I also know that breaking through the 2-party ideological wall is going to take some time. I don't think it's going to happen overnight. But I do think that if we have an increasing trend of citizens voting third party, it'll force people to start actually paying attention to what they say. Any significant change in the way our country does politics is going to take a long time, so if I have to "throw away" a few votes to get there, (as long as the major candidates are cruddy in my eyes) so be it. No election is ever the end-all, be-all as long as we've got the Constitution and the Supreme Court. Edited November 4, 2012 by Basilisa Marie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1352054957' post='2503972'] I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but - what exactly is the point of voting third party (or writing in)? Is it out of personal conviction, some sort of statement, or do you legit think your guy will win (I highly doubt the latter). I'm all for sticking to what you believe in or thumbing your nose at the government, whatever, but do you think your vote (in this election, I mean) is improving the country? [/quote] I believe in voting for who you want to be president, no matter what chance they have of winning. My chances of winning do not factor into my choice of who to vote for. I don't really view it as a statement of anything other than "I want this guy to be president". I think it would improve the country a lot if everybody started voting that way. As it stands, most people vote for people they don't actually like or want to be president because they are too afraid of the other guy winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 In short a catholic could vote for Obama. But they should not. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1352077435' post='2504192'] I believe in voting for who you want to be president, no matter what chance they have of winning. My chances of winning do not factor into my choice of who to vote for. I don't really view it as a statement of anything other than "I want this guy to be president". I think it would improve the country a lot if everybody started voting that way. As it stands, most people vote for people they don't actually like or want to be president because they are too afraid of the other guy winning. [/quote] Ignorance is no bliss, it's quite the opposite. If your personal feelings go against what this country needs, then you're being selfish. Reality is only Romney or Obama will become president. Do something that will make a difference, instead of pursuing a mirage. Enough of this ideology that has proven to put the wrong president in office as has happened before. Not only are you hurting your country, but you're hurting each and everyone of us by following your feelings and not the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I am doing the only thing that will actually make a difference, mate, it is what you are doing that doesn't make a difference. It is your ideology that continues to put the wrong presidents into office; your ideology put Bush HW into office, but it could've just as easily put Dukakis into office; your ideology put Clinton into office but it could've just as easily put HW in for longer or Bob Dole in next, your ideology is the one that put Bush W into office but it could've just as easily put Gore or Kerry into office, your ideology is the one that put Obama into office but it could've just as easily put McCain into office. The base of your ideology is "pick one of these two choices"; and it is your ideology that will put either Obama or Romney into office on Tuesday. Both choices are wrong for this country, and the crazy thing is that a huge number of people will actually admit that they're both wrong for the country but will just say that one is better than the other. It's a terrible shame. I mailed in my vote weeks ago, btw, I'm so sorry for hurting my country and hurting each and every one of you ... I didn't realize that this right that people fought and died to protect consisted of nothing more than a sham wherein if I pick the wrong side or the losing side I'm 'hurting my country'... I exercised by right as an American proudly, and that right means nothing if it's not a free declaration on a ballot of who you would like to be president. that's what it is supposed to be, the freely made declaration of who you would like to be president. I am proud of my vote, much prouder of this vote than I am of my 2008 vote for John McCain, because this vote was a true expression of who I'd like to see be president. Here's a couple excerpts from an article Dale Ahlquist (President of the American Chesterton Society) wrote: "I believe voting is not just a duty, but a sacred act, and not something I should be ashamed of (as I have been, as I would be again were I to vote for a compromise candidate). G.K. Chesterton points out that the cross made on the ballot paper is not accidental. It really can be symbolic of the sign of the cross. Whereas for the agnostic, the X made is for the unknown quantity... "Chesterton says that there is more to democracy than voting, just as there is more to Christianity than going to church. I do not expect that the problems facing our nation will be fixed from the top down, but that if they are going to be fixed it must be from the bottom up... proclaiming the truth without compromise, defending sanity in an insane world, defending babies, families, husbands, and wives, the dignity of ownership, the glory of God, and the gospel of Jesus Christ... not by affirming our loyalty to any politician or to any broken political system, but by using the wisdom and charity of G.K. Chesterton, who did not put his faith in any elected man, but in the Everlasting Man who has overcome the world." Vote for who your conscience tells you to vote for on Tuesday, but don't go around complaining about those who don't join you in your particular political strategy; they exercised their right to vote just like you did, they came to a decision and they participated. Take it all with the grain of salt that realizes things can't be fixed from the top down, and there are many different valid ways to participate in civic life and not everyone has to agree with your particular strategy of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1352099849' post='2504397'] but don't go around complaining about those who don't join you in your particular political strategy; [/quote] But...isn't the first paragraph of your post a complaint? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 this is the thing about phatmass... I try to sanitize myself against saying ___ing and moaning and it doesn't exactly translate well. although I guess my first paragraph might even qualify under the non-sanitized version of what I was trying to say as well. my point was to respect the choice of others even those that disagree with you, to not go too far in your rhetoric against those that vote differently that you. that's not to be taken too absolutely, you have every right to argue against other voting strategies. I guess I think you should understand my first paragraph in the context of my last paragraph: my first paragraph bemoans the particular two-choice mentality, but my last paragraph says that I respect your vote choice no matter who you choose, even if it's one of the two choices. I don't have a problem with you picking Romney, I have a problem with you saying that you absolutely have to pick either Romney or Obama--it's that particular argument that is the mindset that places the wrong man as president each time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 ok people: here is what to do: -pray -go out tomorrow and vote according to your informed conscience* -pray *just be sure NOT to vote for Obama, Romney, a third party candidate, or no one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1352099849' post='2504397'] I am doing the only thing that will actually make a difference, mate, it is what you are doing that doesn't make a difference. It is your ideology that continues to put the wrong presidents into office; your ideology put Bush HW into office, but it could've just as easily put Dukakis into office; your ideology put Clinton into office but it could've just as easily put HW in for longer or Bob Dole in next, your ideology is the one that put Bush W into office but it could've just as easily put Gore or Kerry into office, your ideology is the one that put Obama into office but it could've just as easily put McCain into office. The base of your ideology is "pick one of these two choices"; and it is your ideology that will put either Obama or Romney into office on Tuesday. Both choices are wrong for this country, and the crazy thing is that a huge number of people will actually admit that they're both wrong for the country but will just say that one is better than the other. It's a terrible shame. I mailed in my vote weeks ago, btw, I'm so sorry for hurting my country and hurting each and every one of you ... I didn't realize that this right that people fought and died to protect consisted of nothing more than a sham wherein if I pick the wrong side or the losing side I'm 'hurting my country'... I exercised by right as an American proudly, and that right means nothing if it's not a free declaration on a ballot of who you would like to be president. that's what it is supposed to be, the freely made declaration of who you would like to be president. I am proud of my vote, much prouder of this vote than I am of my 2008 vote for John McCain, because this vote was a true expression of who I'd like to see be president. Here's a couple excerpts from an article Dale Ahlquist (President of the American Chesterton Society) wrote: "I believe voting is not just a duty, but a sacred act, and not something I should be ashamed of (as I have been, as I would be again were I to vote for a compromise candidate). G.K. Chesterton points out that the cross made on the ballot paper is not accidental. It really can be symbolic of the sign of the cross. Whereas for the agnostic, the X made is for the unknown quantity... "Chesterton says that there is more to democracy than voting, just as there is more to Christianity than going to church. I do not expect that the problems facing our nation will be fixed from the top down, but that if they are going to be fixed it must be from the bottom up... proclaiming the truth without compromise, defending sanity in an insane world, defending babies, families, husbands, and wives, the dignity of ownership, the glory of God, and the gospel of Jesus Christ... not by affirming our loyalty to any politician or to any broken political system, but by using the wisdom and charity of G.K. Chesterton, who did not put his faith in any elected man, but in the Everlasting Man who has overcome the world." Vote for who your conscience tells you to vote for on Tuesday, but don't go around complaining about those who don't join you in your particular political strategy; they exercised their right to vote just like you did, they came to a decision and they participated. Take it all with the grain of salt that realizes things can't be fixed from the top down, and there are many different valid ways to participate in civic life and not everyone has to agree with your particular strategy of doing so. [/quote] Obviously you want a Democrat for president. Just go vote for Obama and don't bore me anymore with your long tirades and spin tactics. I've already told you everything you need to know about a 3rd party. Please save my time and yours. You'll need it for your studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1352142425' post='2504615'] ok people: here is what to do: -pray -go out tomorrow and vote according to your informed conscience* -pray *just be sure NOT to vote for Obama, Romney, a third party candidate, or no one [/quote] Are you on something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1352147798' post='2504644'] Are you on something? [/quote] yeh, dude. need something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1352141425' post='2504604'] this is the thing about phatmass... I try to sanitize myself against saying ___ing and moaning and it doesn't exactly translate well. although I guess my first paragraph might even qualify under the non-sanitized version of what I was trying to say as well. my point was to respect the choice of others even those that disagree with you, to not go too far in your rhetoric against those that vote differently that you. that's not to be taken too absolutely, you have every right to argue against other voting strategies. I guess I think you should understand my first paragraph in the context of my last paragraph: my first paragraph bemoans the particular two-choice mentality, but my last paragraph says that I respect your vote choice no matter who you choose, even if it's one of the two choices. I don't have a problem with you picking Romney, I have a problem with you saying that you absolutely have to pick either Romney or Obama--it's that particular argument that is the mindset that places the wrong man as president each time around. [/quote] To inform the uninformed with the truth and the real facts will always be a good thing no matter what the situation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1352147997' post='2504648'] yeh, dude. need something? [/quote] I thought so Thanks for admitting it. I was starting to doubt my ability to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 You know, trolling is all well and good and can lead to mutual lulz for everyone, but half the time this dude is just toxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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