Can Catholics Vote For Obama?

[Anomaly]

Voting Third option in the 2013 election will not elect an alternative to Romney/Republican or Obama/Democrat. It does nothing to take political power away from those who have been successful in enacting pro-abortion laws and want to protect abortion from any government restrictions.

Third option dies not make a statement as it cannot communicate dissatisfaction with pro-life policy, economic policy, education policy, foreign policy.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Anomaly

[Freedom]

[color=black][font=arial][size=2]
[size=4]Third Party votes for President is a WASTED vote. This only applies to the Presidential election. The reason third party votes is a waste for Presidential elections is called the Electoral College. When you vote for President in the November election where the two nominees go head to head, the winner of the election for each state usually gets all of the electoral college votes. Except in two states, Nebraska and Maine are the only ones who currently split their electoral votes. [/size][/size][/font][/color]

[size=4]Ross Perot, the most successful Third Party candidate in recent history got 19% of the popular vote in 1992 but got [b][u]Z[/u][u]ERO [/u][/b][b][u]electoral[/u][u] [/u][/b][u]votes.[/u] [/size]

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351974842' post='2503564']

[color=black][font=arial][size=2][size=4]Third Party votes for President is a WASTED vote. This only applies to the Presidential election. The reason third party votes is a waste for Presidential elections is called the Electoral College. When you vote for President in the November election where the two nominees go head to head, the winner of the election for each state usually gets all of the electoral college votes. Except in two states, Nebraska and Maine are the only ones who currently split their electoral votes. [/size][/size][/font][/color]

[size=4]Ross Perot, the most successful Third Party candidate in recent history got 19% of the popular vote in 1992 but got [b][u]Z[/u][u]ERO [/u][/b][b][u]electoral[/u][u] [/u][/b][u]votes.[/u] [/size]
[/quote]
Define recent history. As I posted above, the 1968 election had Wallace carrying 46 electoral votes. Granted, not great, and his appeal was limited outside of the South....

And I don't exactly appreciate your patronizing tone regarding the electoral college. I know how it works. I'm pretty sure I've voted in many more elections than you have.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351947971' post='2503429']
I told people not to vote for Romney, to instead either vote third party or do a write in.
[/quote]
And to the 99% of people who think realistically and understand that at this point it is down to two choices, [b]not voting Romney [/b]only leaves only one other choice.

I think this is what you have been overlooking from the start.

[Nihil Obstat]

Lots of people think Communion is cannibalism too.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1351964978' post='2503508']
Your continued obstinacy denigration if the Republican Party seems to be founded in your disappointment regarding the loss of the candidate you supported who ran as a Republican. You supported his politically strategic pro life stance to seek an incremental victory by turning it over to the States. Or was he just washing his hands?
[/quote]
Ron Paul supported federal legislation defining life as beginning at conception. Constitutionally, such legislation would therefore forbid states from allowing abortion the same way the fifth amendment forbids state governments from forcing people to testify against themselves. The Federal Government has every constitutional right to limit states against legalizing abortion, and that was the eventual direction sought by multiple pieces of legislation Ron Paul introduced and/or fought for over his years in Congress and what he supported in his presidential campaign. He did not want to merely turn it over to the states and let the states choose whether to legalize it or not, though certainly that could be one stage in the plan if his We the People act was passed but his Sanctity of Life Act was not passed.

My principals lost in the Republican primary process, the Republican Party clearly chose not to represent my principals in this election. I, in turn, am not supporting them in this election. I only support them when they support my principals, when they do not do so, I don't support them. It's a pretty easy concept. I know you disagree with it, but I also know you understand it, and that you understand there's a deeper argument for it than just some kind of hurt feelings like you're kind of portraying it as in that post.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1352000834' post='2503712']
And to the 99% of people who think realistically and understand that at this point it is down to two choices, [b]not voting Romney [/b]only leaves only one other choice.

I think this is what you have been overlooking from the start.
[/quote]
That's not what I'm overlooking, that's the exact thing I've been arguing against from the start. I honestly don't care if someone chooses to vote for Romney or chooses to vote for Obama; I disagree with both of those votes, my argument IS that people should vote for neither one, that they should vote third party or do a write-in. If you vote for Romney or you vote for Obama, you have disagreed with my argument and have taken the opposing side of my argument. That's the entire crux of my whole point: an argument against the two-choices mindset.

In that particular argument, you are on the same side as the people who argue that people should vote for Obama. I am arguing against both of you as two sides of the same argument: the argument being that there are only two choices. That's the side that you take, and that's the side that the 99% take; and it's the whole thing I'm arguing against.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Aloysius

[qfnol31]

I remember four years ago when many people advocated voting for a third-party candidate to send a final message to the Republican Party to put forth a better candidate.

Does anyone really think that practice worked?

[dUSt]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1352002367' post='2503721']
I honestly don't care if someone chooses to vote for Romney or chooses to vote for Obama; I disagree with both of those votes, my argument IS that people should vote for neither one, that they should vote third party or do a write-in.
[/quote]
Oh really? This is your stance? Because I've seen the post you started called "Don't Vote For Romney", but I didn't see the one you started called "Don't Vote For Obama". Can you link me?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1352007572' post='2503749']
I remember four years ago when many people advocated voting for a third-party candidate to send a final message to the Republican Party to put forth a better candidate.

Does anyone really think that practice worked?
[/quote]
Did anyone actually do it?
Honest question- I do not know.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352008072' post='2503752']
Did anyone actually do it?
Honest question- I do not know.
[/quote]
I think so, but I'd have to dig around to see. I'll see if I can pull up anything tomorrow.

On a sorta related note, I took a drive through Pennsylvania today. I couldn't believe all the signs out for Romney and against Obama. I ran into several retired people who were standing outside holding "Nobama" signs and everything.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1352008311' post='2503753']
I think so, but I'd have to dig around to see. I'll see if I can pull up anything tomorrow.
[/quote]
I would be interested in seeing whatever you find.

[Aloysius]

yeah, even I gave into the pressure and voted for McCain in '08, to be honest. But I argued in favor of voting third party back then, I just didn't have the follow through after getting pressured from many people. It's certainly not some perfect science where if you vote for a third party you're definitely going to end up with a better candidate four years from then, but if people change their attitudes then it will have an impact over time. But you have to change attitudes, you have to convince people to stop falling for the two-choice mentality.

Yes I have directed my arguments mostly against Romney, because the vast majority of the people on this site are the type that would fall for Romney hook line and sinker in my opinion and who would not support Obama; in all my arguments against Romney I have basically argued that you shouldn't vote for him [i]because he's like Obama. [/i]If you follow my line of reasoning, it would be idiotic to vote for Obama, the standard of wrongness to which I held Romney up to to prove that a vote for Romney is a bad vote.. If you look over to the thread where Hasan has Noam Chomsky telling everyone to vote for Obama, you'll see how I complain there as well that Professor Chomsky should be telling people to vote third party. That thread didn't exactly take off, of course. I also argued the same on the thread where The Economist was endorsing Obama. Those weren't the threads that caused controversy though; it's not exactly controversial here on this site to say "Don't vote for Obama"--the vast majority of us agree that we shouldn't vote for Obama, so when people say things like that it doesn't cause controversy. It's the voting for Romney part that is controversial around here and has provided all the phun threads

[qfnol31]

My logic : I have a 1 in 1 chance Obama's next term will be as bad or worse than the first. I have about a 1 in 4 chance Romney will be as bad as Obama and basically no chance he'll be worse. That leaves me about a 3 in 4 chance he'll be better. I don't have to fall for Romney. I already know the real Obama.

Full disclosure: I will probably always work for a solidly Catholic institution from here on out. The HHS mandate will kill part of my future benefits for my family, and that really ticks me off. I find the mandate against the Constitution, and as an American I am extremely upset we would even take the risk of losing religious liberty.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351697325' post='2501144']

Explain.
[/quote]

David Barton of Wallbuilders.com [url="http://wallbuilders.com/"]http://wallbuilders.com/[/url] has come
out with a list explaining why Barack Obama is the most biblically
hostile President of all time. While most of these stories have been
seen before, seeing them all laid-out in one list, is pretty
astonishing !

1. Acts of Hostility Toward People Of Biblical Faith:
a. April 2008: – Obama speaks disrespectfully of Christians, saying
they “cling to their guns or religion” and have an “antipathy to people who are not like them.”

b. February 2009: – Obama announces plans to revoke conscience
protection for health workers who refuse to participate in medical
activities that go against their beliefs, and fully implements the
plan in February 2011.

c. April 2009: – When speaking at Georgetown University , Obama orders
that a monogram symbolizing Jesus’ name be covered when he is making his speech.

d. May 2009: – Obama declines to host services for the National
Prayer Day (a day established by federal law) at the White House.

e. April 2009: – In a deliberate act of disrespect, Obama nominated
three pro-abortion ambassadors to the Vatican ; of course, the pro-life
Vatican rejected all three.

f. October 19, 2010: – Obama begins deliberately omitting the phrase
about “the Creator” when quoting the Declaration of Independence; – an omission he has made on no less than seven occasions.

g. November 2010: – Obama misquotes the National Motto, saying it is
“"E pluribus Unum"” rather than "“In God We Trust,"” as established by federal law.

h. January 2011: – After a federal law was passed to transfer a WWI
Memorial in the Mojave Desert to private ownership, the U. S. Supreme Court ruled that the cross in the memorial could continue to stand, but the Obama administration refused to allow the land to be
transferred as required by law, and refused to allow the cross to be
re-erected as ordered by the Court.

i. February 2011: – Although he filled posts in the State Department,
for more than two years Obama did not fill the post of religious
freedom ambassador, an official that works against religious
persecution across the world; he filled it only after heavy pressure
from the public and from Congress.

j. April 2011: – For the first time in American history, Obama urges
passage of a non-discrimination law that does not contain hiring
protections for religious groups, forcing religious organizations to
hire according to federal mandates without regard to the dictates of
their own faith, thus eliminating conscience protection in hiring.

k. August 2011: – The Obama administration releases its new health
care rules that override religious conscience protections for medical
workers in the areas of abortion and contraception.

l. November 2011: – Obama opposes inclusion of President Franklin
Roosevelt’s famous D-Day Prayer in the WWII Memorial.

m. November 2011: – Unlike previous presidents, Obama studiously
avoids any religious references in his Thanksgiving speech.

n. December 2011: – The Obama administration denigrates other
countries’ religious beliefs as an obstacle to radical homosexual
rights.

o. January 2012: – The Obama administration argues that the First
Amendment provides no protection for churches and synagogues in hiring their pastors and rabbis.

p. February 2012: – The Obama administration forgives student loans
in exchange for public service, but announces it will no longer
forgive student loans if the public service is related to religion.

2. Acts of Hostility From The Obama-Led Military Toward People Of
Biblical Faith:

a. June 2011: – The Department of Veterans Affairs forbids references
to God and Jesus during burial ceremonies at Houston National
Cemetery .
b. August 2011: – The Air Force stops teaching the Just War theory to
officers in California because the course is taught by chaplains and
is based on a philosophy introduced by St. Augustine in the third
century AD; – a theory long taught by civilized nations across the
world (except America).

c. September 2011: – Air Force Chief of Staff prohibits commanders
from notifying airmen of programs and services available to them from
chaplains.

d. September 2011: – The Army issues guidelines for Walter Reed
Medical Center stipulating that “No religious items (i.e. Bibles,
reading materials and/or facts) are allowed to be given away or used
during a visit.”

e. November 2011: – The Air Force Academy rescinds support for
Operation Christmas Child, a program to send holiday gifts to
impoverished children across the world, because the program is run by
a Christian charity.

f. November 2011: – The Air Force Academy pays $80,000 to add a
Stonehenge-like worship center for pagans, druids, witches and
Wiccans.

g. February 2012: – The U. S. Military Academy at West Point
dis-invites three star Army general and decorated war hero Lieutenant
General William G. (“Jerry”) Boykin (retired) from speaking at an
event because he is an outspoken Christian.

h. February 2012: – The Air Force removes “God” from the patch of
Rapid Capabilities Office (the word on the patch was in Latin: Dei).

i. February 2012: – The Army orders Catholic chaplains not to read a
letter to parishioners that their archbishop asked them to read.

3. Acts of Hostility Toward Biblical Values:

a. January 2009: – Obama lifts restrictions on U.S. government
funding for groups that provide abortion services or counseling
abroad, forcing taxpayers to fund pro-abortion groups that either
promote or perform abortions in other nations.

b. January 2009: – President Obama’s nominee for deputy secretary of state asserts that American taxpayers are required to pay for abortions and that limits on abortion funding are unconstitutional.

c. March 2009: – The Obama administration shut-out pro-life groups
from attending a White House-sponsored health care summit.

d. March 2009: – Obama orders taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research.

e. March 2009: – Obama gave $50 million for the UNFPA, the UN
population agency that promotes abortion and works closely with
Chinese population control officials, who use forced abortions and
involuntary sterilizations.

f. May 2009: – The White House budget eliminates all funding for
abstinence-only education and replaces it with “comprehensive” sexual
education, repeatedly proven to increase teen pregnancies and
abortions. He continues the deletion in subsequent budgets.

g. May 2009: – Obama officials assemble a terrorism dictionary
calling pro-life advocates violent and charging that they use racism
in their “criminal” activities.

h. July 2009: – The Obama administration illegally extends federal
benefits to same-sex partners of Foreign Service and Executive Branch
employees, in direct violation of the federal Defense of Marriage Act.

i. September 16, 2009: – The Obama administration appoints, as EEOC
Commissioner, Chai Feldblum, who asserts that society should “not
tolerate” any “private beliefs,” including religious beliefs, if they
may negatively affect homosexual “equality.”

j. July 2010: – The Obama administration uses federal funds in
violation of federal law to get Kenya to change its constitution to
include abortion.

k. August 2010: – The Obama administration Cuts funding for 176
abstinence education programs.

l. September 2010: – The Obama administration tells researchers to
ignore a judge’s decision, striking down federal funding for embryonic
stem cell research.

m. February 2011: – Obama directs the Justice Department to stop
defending the federal Defense of Marriage Act.

n. March 2011: – The Obama administration refuses to investigate
videos showing Planned Parenthood helping alleged sex traffickers get
abortions for victimized underage girls.

o. July 2011: – Obama allows homosexuals to serve openly in the
military, reversing a policy originally instituted by George
Washington in March 1778.

p. September 2011: – The Pentagon directs that military chaplains may
perform same-sex marriages at military facilities, in violation of the
federal Defense of Marriage Act.

q. October 2011: – The Obama administration eliminates federal grants
to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, for their extensive
programs that aid victims of human trafficking, because the Catholic
Church is anti-abortion.

4. Acts Of Preferentialism For Islam:

a. May 2009: – While Obama does not host any National Day of Prayer
event at the White House, he does host White House Iftar dinners in
honor of Ramadan.

b. April 2010: – Christian leader Franklin Graham is dis-invited from
the Pentagon’s National Day of Prayer Event, because of complaints from the Muslim community.

c. April 2010: – The Obama administration requires rewriting of
government documents and a change in administration vocabulary to
remove terms that are deemed offensive to Muslims, including "jihad,"
"jihadists," "terrorists," "radical Islamic," etc.

d. August 2010: – Obama speaks with great praise of Islam and
condescendingly of Christianity.

e. August 2010: – Obama went to great lengths to speak out on
multiple occasions on behalf of building an Islamic mosque at Ground
Zero, while at the same time he was silent about a Christian church
being denied permission, to rebuild at that location.

f. 2010: – While every White House traditionally issues hundreds of
official proclamations and statements on numerous occasions, this
White House avoids traditional Biblical holidays and events, but
regularly recognizes major Muslim holidays, as evidenced by its 2010
statements on Ramadan, Eid-ul-Fitr, Hajj, and Eid-ul-Adha.

g. October 2011: – Obama’s Muslim advisers block Middle Eastern
Christians’ access to the White House.

h. February 2012: – The Obama administration makes effulgent
apologies for Korans being burned by the U. S. military, but when
Bibles were burned by the military, numerous reasons were offered why it was the right thing to do.

Many of these actions are literally unprecedented––this is the
first time they have happened in four centuries of American history.
The hostility of President Obama toward Biblical faith and values is
without equal from any previous American president.

That any help kujo ?

ed