Can Catholics Vote For Obama?

[Freedom]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1352155949' post='2504768']
Freedom reminds me of Bubble Boy.
[/quote]

I wish I was in a bubble, it's so much easier than having to deal with all this aberration.

[Freedom]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1352156034' post='2504771']

I look forward to the moment when you realize that everyone's on the same page but you. Assuming the moment ever comes, of course.
[/quote]

Ganging against the truth will not make you right, no matter how many you are.

[Freedom]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1352155966' post='2504770']
I think he understands me pretty well, even though I completely disagree with him.
[/quote]

I agree.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1352156369' post='2504775']
Ganging against the truth will not make you right, no matter how many you are.
[/quote]

This is what I meant about talking past people and not listening to them. I'm voting for Romney so, technically, we're in agreement.

[Freedom]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1352156512' post='2504778']

This is what I meant about talking past people and not listening to them. I'm voting for Romney so, technically, we're in agreement.
[/quote]

Yaay! Finally you said something that resonates with me!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1352156634' post='2504780']
Yaay! Finally you said something that resonates with me!
[/quote]

i'm sure HisChildForever is filled with joy now.

[dUSt]

Here's what I don't get about Aloysius' argument. He says not voting for one of the two big party candidates will make a statement and help change the future. I say this is ridiculous, but let's just pretend he's on to something...

Now comes the reality check.

Over 40% of the country already does not vote for either candidate. That is over [b]100[/b] [b]million[/b] people choosing not to vote Republican or Democrat. How many more people does Aloysius thinks it's going to take to make the statement he's hoping for?

[Aloysius]

I think that's a question for Nihil, who thinks not voting at all is a statement against the system. I, on the other hand, believe in voting and therefore I am not with the 40% who don't vote.

Imagine if instead of those 40% sitting at home and twiddling their thumbs and not caring, they all went out and voted either for a third party or none of the above or a write in. For the sake of argument let's say they each individually voted for themselves so they didn't even succeed in electing someone to win the presidency. But what would the election night returns look like? They'd look like ~30% Dem, ~30% Repub, ~40% Other. Of course that would be a statement, of course people would take notice of that.

I don't think not voting constitutes making a statement, I have suggested to people that do think that that they would only be making a statement if they accompanied their non-voting with a massive rally and called it something like a voters' strike. The 40% who don't vote are dismissed as just not caring or whatever, and I think a large portion of them are that way, they don't pay attention and they don't care... probably many of them just feel like their vote wouldn't matter. I think they should all vote, just not for Dem or Repub.

And anyway, like I've said, it's not so simple as saying it's "sending a message", it's about everyone having the philosophy of voting for the person they'd like to be president... if everyone started voting for that philosophy, the elites could no longer take large voting blocks for granted and we'd have a real political discourse in this country instead of the sham we have today.

HisChildForever and Homeschoolmom, great contributions to the thread. Cheers

[Nihil Obstat]

I think voting third party is perhaps in a sense better than simple apathy. Perhaps I would call it a sign of moral awakening, like how Pope Benedict used the term. But going further, I think rejecting the paradigm entirely and actively refusing to vote is better still, as long as it distinguishes itself from apathy in a meaningful way. An organized voter's strike would be an excellent example, which I would support.

On the other hand, and I have not really thought this through to its conclusions yet, perhaps the simple apathy is actually evidence of the increasing dissatisfaction with the political elite. Perhaps it is evidence that the average person is slowly coming to understand that the politicians [i]do not care about them[/i]. In fact, that the politicians hold them in contempt, and pretend otherwise only to secure power.

Apathy is not an adequate response, but it may perhaps be a valid symptom of the wider problem.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1352155949' post='2504768']
Freedom reminds me of Bubble Boy.
[/quote]
Moops

[Freedom]

Not voting and voting for a 3rd party is just plain silly. Especially during the presidential elections when it does absolutely nothing except split the vote. You want Obama to remain president, vote 3rd party or don't vote. 40% other? That would be completely fiction and would just not happen.

[ardillacid]

Well, I can personally guarantee that Ron Paul got at least one vote in PA

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352173419' post='2504987']
I think voting third party is perhaps in a sense better than simple apathy. Perhaps I would call it a sign of moral awakening, like how Pope Benedict used the term. But going further, I think rejecting the paradigm entirely and actively refusing to vote is better still, as long as it distinguishes itself from apathy in a meaningful way. An organized voter's strike would be an excellent example, which I would support.

On the other hand, and I have not really thought this through to its conclusions yet, perhaps the simple apathy is actually evidence of the increasing dissatisfaction with the political elite. Perhaps it is evidence that the average person is slowly coming to understand that the politicians [i]do not care about them[/i]. In fact, that the politicians hold them in contempt, and pretend otherwise only to secure power.

Apathy is not an adequate response, but it may perhaps be a valid symptom of the wider problem.
[/quote]

except not voting does absolutely nothing. there is no protest with your non vote because all politicians don't care about you. just not voting will not do anything. going and having a write in that just says none would be better than no vote. if you don't vote nobody will get your message exept you. its an absolute fact on that.

so instead of not voting get all these people who are not happy with the system to go vote and vote none. cause not voting will do absolutely nothing and your kidding yourself if you think your not voting will have any effect.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1352491588' post='2507305']
except not voting does absolutely nothing. there is no protest with your non vote because all politicians don't care about you. just not voting will not do anything. going and having a write in that just says none would be better than no vote. if you don't vote nobody will get your message exept you. its an absolute fact on that.

so instead of not voting get all these people who are not happy with the system to go vote and vote none. cause not voting will do absolutely nothing and your kidding yourself if you think your not voting will have any effect.
[/quote]
We are not really on the same page here at all.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352491679' post='2507308']
We are not really on the same page here at all.
[/quote]

i think we are on the same page in that this country's political system needs to change and the candiudates need to better refelct catholic values. i believe not voting has absolutely no influence on changing these things and never will. You will just be ignored not only by the politicians but by the parties, the political system, the government and the masses. to all of them you absolutely don;t matter and niether does your opinion because to them you have no opinion. you don't vote and you are no different than the lazy people who don't vote for whatever excuse they claim.(not saying your lazy, just saying this is what they think of you).

honestly if i were running for office, your opinion of me as a candidate would still make me not care about you as a voter. cause if your not going to vote, why on earth should a politician or party or system care about your opinion?