Jaime Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1351306317' post='2498327'] To be fair, neither would I if I were to go back in time as an American to that election. [/quote] I would have. But I'm a sucker for hats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1351306704' post='2498331'] We've discussed in other threads recently that Romney went back on his promises of defunding Planned Parenthood, reversing Roe vs. Wade, not allowing Obamacare to pass, and that he is now for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and the health of the mother. His voting record shows that he's pro-choice too. [/quote] although we can say for absolute certain Obama is so so so so much worse when it comes to abortion than Romney. Obama also has no problem attacking the catholic church with his demands we supply everyone with contraceptives. so i think is blatently clear romney is no where near as bad as obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 the reason a vote for a third party is a vote for obama is because liberals don't vote third party. they vote democrate and that's it. so the liberal vote always goes to the democrates. conservatives who don't vote republican in this election and vote for some other third party means one less vote for republicans. so what that means is the democratioc vote will be unchanged but the repbulican vote will be less because conservatives will split their vote between candidates which means less votes are needed for obama to retain the presidency. also for all those who say this will show them next time that we need three candidates, well then you run the risk of making it worse on yourselfs than it is now. here's why: with the current way the country is set up and was founded on the presidency is decided by an electoral college. more candidates mean probobly more of a split in the eletoral college, which would mean no one has the required number to achieve the presidencey. if that happens your vote means absolutley NOTHING. if not one of the thee candidates has 270 electoral votes then that means that the house of representatives decided who the next president will be and the senate decides who the next vice president will be. let's just take this year for example. let's say nadar was a legit third party and he got 30% of the electoral college. well that would mean nadar, obama or romney would not have the required electoral votes. which means every single vote cast does not count and its up to the house of representatives to decide the presidency. they being a republican house would pick romney. the senate gets to pick the vice president and them being democrate would pick biden. so romney is president and biden is vice president and not a single vote counted to get that result. the fact is this would happen more often then not. the only way this could be avoided is if you changed the the principles the founding fathers set up for this country and went to a strictly majority rule although then we would no longer be a republic, we would be a true democatric society. something this country was not founded on. that or you would have to extremely lower the number of electoral votes it would take to get to win the presidency. although then you run the risk someone winning the presidency who is only voted for by slightly more than a third of the country. the thing is everyone complains about needing and wanting a legit third party in this country but realistically it would make this country worse off than it is now or you would need to change the way this country was founded. something i can't imagine many conservatives are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I live in a state that has voted for a democratic presidential candidate every election since before I was born. It makes no difference who I vote for, the state electoral votes will absolutely go for Obama. However when I vote for Virgil Goode, then i get to exercise my right to vote for a pro-life candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351310867' post='2498358'] although we can say for absolute certain Obama is so so so so much worse when it comes to abortion than Romney... [/quote] Is this what the Pro-Life community has been reduced to? I thought being Pro-Life was sort of a zero-sum sorta deal--you either believe abortion is the murder of a human being, or you didn't. The degrees of separation don't really seem to matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351314090' post='2498389'] Is this what the Pro-Life community has been reduced to? I thought being Pro-Life was sort of a zero-sum sorta deal--you either believe abortion is the murder of a human being, or you didn't. The degrees of separation don't really seem to matter. [/quote] you obviously have no idea what the church teaches when it comes to policies on abortion and candidates and how they are to vote or you wouldn't have even printed your comments. first step, learn what the church teaches. it really does help on a catholic forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351314484' post='2498397'] you obviously have no idea what the church teaches when it comes to policies on abortion and candidates and how they are to vote or you wouldn't have even printed your comments. first step, learn what the church teaches. it really does help on a catholic forum. [/quote] <----Knows what the Church teaches <----Disagrees with it, at least as it pertains to my voting choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351314552' post='2498398'] <----Knows what the Church teaches <----Disagrees with it, at least as it pertains to my voting choices [/quote] obviouslyt you don't since you imply that the pro life movement here is an all or nothing thing. the church says if something, some law were to reduce abortions but not eliminate them completely one can vote for this. when voting one does not need to be all or nothing. one's own morality needs to be all or nothing but not voting because and here is the keep component... because the ultimate goal is no abortions period although with the way governments are set up and laws are set up its not an easy thing to just overturn laws so voting on laws that reduce the number of abortions but do not completely overtune the law allowing abortions is ok. your ultimate goal is eliminating abortions completely but its not an easy thing and its better to continue to reduce abortions than to do nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351314993' post='2498407'] obviouslyt you don't since you imply that the pro life movement here is an all or nothing thing. the church says if something, some law were to reduce abortions but not eliminate them completely one can vote for this. when voting one does not need to be all or nothing. one's own morality needs to be all or nothing but not voting because and here is the keep component... because the ultimate goal is no abortions period although with the way governments are set up and laws are set up its not an easy thing to just overturn laws so voting on laws that reduce the number of abortions but do not completely overtune the law allowing abortions is ok. your ultimate goal is eliminating abortions completely but its not an easy thing and its better to continue to reduce abortions than to do nothing at all. [/quote] Thanks for elucidating that for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1351306704' post='2498331'] We've discussed in other threads recently that Romney went back on his promises of defunding Planned Parenthood, reversing Roe vs. Wade, not allowing Obamacare to pass, and that he is now for abortion in cases of rape, incest, and the health of the mother. His voting record shows that he's pro-choice too. [/quote] TinyTherese, wow ! Are you that gullible or just so misinformed that you beleive that Romney ever had any chance to " reverse Roe vs. Wade " ? How did you come up with that one? And " abortion in cases of rape and incest " as immoral and wrong as that is is far more palatable to many people, including the U.S.C.C.B and would limit abortions as the President now allows for up to the moment of birth, and in the cases of a botched abortion allowing the baby to die out of the womb. And I have seen nowhere any mention of Romney being pro euthanasia for the elderly either. And I assume you do jot realize that Romney being a GOVERNOR he had no voice on " allowing Obamacare to pass " you really should read up on how the govenment works, you see the CONGRESS voted on and passed Obamacare, and by the way it was a DEMOCRAT run congress. As you are so familiar with his voting record do you know where Romney stands on homosexual marriage, *hint* he is against it unlike the current President. I guess you know that marriage between a man and a woman is not only a moral stance of the Church, but also a covenant from God? Shewww .... ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1351320128' post='2498447'] TinyTherese, wow ! Are you that gullible or just so misinformed ... [/quote] You know, I do not even care what the rest of this post says. I just cannot stand this 'debate tactic'. It is dishonest and inflammatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1351320276' post='2498448'] You know, I do not even care what the rest of this post says. I just cannot stand this 'debate tactic'. It is dishonest and inflammatory. [/quote] As was this one sentence my friend. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1351357188' post='2498573'] As was this one sentence my friend. ed [/quote] I did not think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1351357444' post='2498577'] I did not think so. [/quote] Me either, I was actually trying to be edifying in my post. Its misinformation like that which I responded to that was most likely the reason that last time 52% of American catholics voted for the most morally bankrupt President we have ever been burdened with. I have to ask Nihil, why are you so adamant in promoting a 3rd party candidate? Is it because of the moral bankruptcy so prominent in your governmental leaders, or just because you have no stake or vote in this election its all a game to you? ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1351357858' post='2498581'] Me either, I was actually trying to be edifying in my post. Its misinformation like that which I responded to that was most likely the reason that last time 52% of American catholics voted for the most morally bankrupt President we have ever been burdened with. I have to ask Nihil, why are you so adamant in promoting a 3rd party candidate? Is it because of the moral bankruptcy so prominent in your governmental leaders, or just because you have no stake or vote in this election its all a game to you? ed [/quote] Actually I advocate not voting. However I think third party is also morally praiseworthy given your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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