Voting For A 3rd Party Is Voting For Obama.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351101829' post='2497016']
it's not a vote for which party holds the office, it's a vote for which individual will hold the office AND the leadership of his party. parties are nothing, they are tools that we can use; nothing more. Mitt is a man that should not be in charge of that tool; he has demonstrated the heavy handed way he will control the party throughout the primary season; if Mitt wins, the Republican leadership in congress will fall in line behind Mitt (whereas they would be fighting Obama tooth and nail for the sake of the political show), no matter what Mitt does; when Mitt wants to uphold the major parts of Obama-care (as he has publicly states he would like to do), suddenly we have a bi-partisan compromise agreement and all the worst parts of Obama-care stand, and our voice in opposition is marginalized (whereas when Obama's doing it our voice in opposition is galvanized)

The choice you face in the two party system is the President Obamney that will be President of the USA and leader of the Democratic Party, or the President Obamney that will be President of the USA and leader of the Republican Party; I am perfectly content to support someone more worthy of my vote and leave the Obamney in chage of the Democratic Party so that I can still have a voice in a major opposition party. If Romney wins, all the SAME stuff happens, except the opposition to it dies out.

It's the same thing that happened to the anti-war left when Obama became President. That's what happens to the pro-life right under a President Romney. Yeah we can still stand up and shout, but we'll be marginalized within our own party enamored with power.

No one has yet to refute my original post in Don't Vote for Romney about why Romney is no better than Obama, about why Romney will just be an Obama with an R after his name. And yet everyone still seems to start from that premise, that Romney will be better. He won't be, and you're deluding yourself if you think putting "the Republican Party" into power is a good enough reason to put Mitt into power; because you fail to recognize the neutering effect a Mitt presidency is poised to have on "the Republican Party"
[/quote]Your entire premise of good things to come if Obama is elected is a fantasy. You are stating that the Country will be better off if the Democrat Party holds the majority of power for the next for years. Somehow, increasing the power of Democratic Party that has initiated and championed Goverment paid Abortion and Same Sex Marriage, with the power to appoint the next Justices is better for politicians who are against those things. Genius [i]strategery[/i]!

[BG45]

I'm amazed no one has pointed out the nature of the Electoral College system (a.k.a. people are too dumb to vote popularly, so it's entirely possible to win the most votes from people and not win the Presidency).

As for me, I did vote 3rd party. My home state is handily in Romney's column, my absentee vote, thanks to the electoral college, really wouldn't matter anyhow, once Romney reached the amount he needed to win my state. And as people are talking about double effect, and who is more pro-life than thou between Romney and Obama, I have no doubt Romney is, though he seems uncertain of his own views. This was made about a week ago:
[img]http://www.realitychex.com/storage/romney-abortion.png[/img]

[Aloysius]

I like how you've twisted that, the partisan propaganda is strong with this one...

the country will be better off if the Republican Party is not neutered and embarrassed by a terrible POTUS. the good things I'm talking about are the Republican Party continuing to be a bastion of opposition, whereas under a Romney administration it'd be a yes-man just like it was under Bush. it's the difference between Democrats doing these bad things for the country while Republicans at least give some semblance of outrage and opposition, versus Republicans doing these bad things while few if any Republicans bother to stand up and challenge them.

Romney and Obama are equally as bad, you said you don't even dispute the things I've said to illustrate that on the other thread; therefore a Romney in power is equivalent to Obama being placed in charge of both the USA and the Republican Party. That's how I see it. The Republican Party taking the presidency this time around is WORSE than Obama winning because not only does it continue the worst of Obama's policies (as illustrated by Romney's 180's back to his original positions for the general election) spells the end of our voice in the Republican Party for the next eight years; the centralized power grabbing the Romney campaign has already set into motion in the Republican Party will further ensure that down to all levels of the party, keeping dissenters from positions of influence in the party and thereby lessening our hopes of getting conservatives or pro-lifers into power at any level of party leadership or in any government offices.

and to people who think (not sure if this thread or the other thread) Romney is a pushover--he absolutely is not. He will change his rhetoric, but he won't change his positions. He is very heavy handed and controlling, he is no pushover, and he is very happy to take over the party and shape it the way he wants... and of course since everyone continues to buy the two party line, he can easily steamroll all of the things we care about.

Obama is bad, and despite your twisting of what I said, I am not saying good things will happen if Obama is elected. I am saying that Romney is AS BAD, and therefore WORSE because of the R after his name, because the R after his name means that the Obama-esque policies he will promote will be sanctioned by the Republican Party and less likely to face any opposition at all.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Aloysius

[Freedom]

I'm not 14 years old, but if I was, I'd be the smartest 14 year old ever! Hey, all these guys who are here 24hrs a day, obviously have no jobs therefore they're Obama's voters, but misleading everybody to vote for a 3rd party. A vote away from Romney, will get Obama a second term. If the word liberal is an insult to you, then quit behaving like one.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351118090' post='2497148']
I'm not 14 years old, but if I was, I'd be the smartest 14 year old ever! Hey, all these guys who are here 24hrs a day, obviously have no jobs therefore they're Obama's voters, but misleading everybody to vote for a 3rd party. A vote away from Romney, will get Obama a second term. If the word liberal is an insult to you, then quit behaving like one.
[/quote]
This is pretty immature. Did you want a discussion, or just an audience for your trolling?

[Freedom]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1351118173' post='2497151']
This is pretty immature. Did you want a discussion, or just an audience for your trolling?
[/quote]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's still a free country. If telling the the truth sounds immature to you, than so be it.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351118090' post='2497148']
I'm not 14 years old, but if I was, I'd be the smartest 14 year old ever! Hey, all these guys who are here 24hrs a day, obviously have no jobs therefore they're Obama's voters, but misleading everybody to vote for a 3rd party. A vote away from Romney, will get Obama a second term. If the word liberal is an insult to you, then quit behaving like one.
[/quote]
Or they have shift work. Or work from home. Or for themselves.

Liberal is a compliment. But you don't know what a liberal really is. Probably because you don't read.

[Freedom]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1351120029' post='2497171']
Or they have shift work. Or work from home. Or for themselves.

Liberal is a compliment. But you don't know what a liberal really is. Probably because you don't read.
[/quote]

If someone is working, doing anything, certainly would not have the time to always be here and spend hours yacking.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351120008' post='2497169']


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's still a free country. If telling the the truth sounds immature to you, than so be it.
[/quote]

Deflection and projecting. Step three on the way to becoming a politician. You truly are a prodigy.

[Freedom]

Then accept being called a liberal & be happy with it, instead of attacking me.

[Freedom]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1351120628' post='2497184']
Deflection and projecting. Step three on the way to becoming a politician. You truly are a prodigy.
[/quote]

To tell you the truth, if all politicians were like me, the world would be a better place, because I am sincere and few of them are.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351120794' post='2497189']


To tell you the truth, if all politicians were like me, the world would be a better place, because I am sincere and few of them are.
[/quote]
Yet you like Romney?

[Freedom]

I'm voting for Romney but that's all I'm doing. He is the least evil of the two.

[Freedom]

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1351089919' post='2496923']
freedom, I think you have definitely convinced me to abstain from the pres vote.
[/quote]

If what you're saying is not voting at all, then your duty is to get involved and vote for Romney, because he is the best of the two.

[Aloysius]

I'm in a different time zone, and I'm in graduate school right now. I have worked plenty over the past few years, more overtime and night shifts and double shifts than I care to remember, and I am happy to finally get the chance to go back to school to try to advance myself... but I check on and off on phatmass between doing my readings and working on papers; mostly because everyone here speaks dutch lol so it's nice to get away and discuss some politics and all that during my down time.

anyway, some people have advanced legitimate arguments for voting for Romney that I can respectfully disagree with. Right now, you're not being one of them; you're being the type of easily manipulated pawn that makes politics such an unpleasant topic for so many people and represents everything that's wrong with modern political discourse.

I have still yet to see anyone refute my argument that Romney is JUST AS BAD as Obama; I've laid it right out there on all the important Catholic issues on my other thread, and no one has refuted it. instead of continuing to parrot the doom and gloom and the "how dare you" approach to those who dare to suggest not voting for Romney, why not argue in Romney's favor; why not challenge or dispute the points I've made about his policies? my points are simply ignored and the standard party line is argued for, why won't anyone address Romney's pro-choice record, and his recent statements indicating he has reverted right back to those long held positions? he's included the health-of-the-mother exception that is code-word for a pro-choice republican, and he's specifically said he doesn't foresee doing any abortion related legislation during his term... not to mention the myriad of other reasons.

But anyway, please remember that an attack on Romney should not be viewed as a blasphemy that should cause you to get emotional or outraged or cease to think critically. Please don't let politics be elevated to such importance, it's not worth it, it really isn't.

And now I really have to get back to a little all-nighter to get a jump start on 3 of these 15 page papers I have to write, but I'll leave you for now with Chesterton:

"For at present we all tend to one mistake; we tend to make politics too important. We tend to forget how huge a part of a man's life is the same under a Sultan and a Senate, under Nero or St. Louis. Daybreak is a never-ending glory, getting out of bed is a never-ending nuisance; food and friends will be welcomed; work and strangers must be accepted and endured; birds will go bedwards and children won't, to the end of the last evening." -GK Chesterton