Voting For A 3rd Party Is Voting For Obama.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351048543' post='2496752']
Suit yourself, but that's all you're doing, you're suiting yourself.
[/quote]
I wish I was so holy that I got the gift of reading hearts.

[Freedom]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1351048676' post='2496753']


How so?
[/quote]

Your vote will not accomplish anything. You're luring yourself.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351049111' post='2496758']
Your vote will not accomplish anything. You're luring yourself.
[/quote]

And yours will?

[Winchester]

Yeah. All self-righteous prigs get double counted. You didn't know that, Eagle?

[Freedom]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1351049158' post='2496760']

And yours will?
[/quote]

Again, this is a Country with two major parties,. If you are a Republican & you vote for a 3rd party, you're voting for Obama. If you're Independent & you vote for a 3rd party, you're voting for Obama. Don't fool yourself.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351049551' post='2496765']
Again, this is a Country with two major parties,. If you are a Republican & you vote for a 3rd party, you're voting for Obama. If you're Independent & you vote for a 3rd party, you're voting for Obama. Don't fool yourself.
[/quote]
You failed maths didn't you?

[Freedom]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1351049778' post='2496767']
You failed maths didn't you?
[/quote]

And your a liberal, aren't you?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351046186' post='2496716']
Jesus Christ Himself was a Revolutionary.
[/quote]
And the major party candidates and their supporters are not.

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351047306' post='2496730']
Ron Paul is pro-abortion.

"[b]Very early pregnancies[/b] and victims of rape [b]can be treated with the day after pill[/b], which is nothing more than using birth control pills in a special manner. These very early pregnancies could never be policed, regardless. Such circumstances would be dealt with by each individual making his or her moral choice." - Ron Paul, Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p. 5 ,
[/quote]

That's cute.
[quote][color=#333333][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=4]With Roe overturned, states will be empowered through the democratic process to determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate.[/size][/font][/color][/quote]
Guess where I got that from.
[spoiler]Hint: not Ron Paul's website.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]http://www.mittromney.com/issues/values[/spoiler]

Not, however, that I believe that he earnestly holds all (any) of the beliefs that the party has told him it is in his best interest (and that of his career aspirations) that he hold.

[qfnol31]

I'll make this response in general since there are so many topics happening in this thread.

I think I've posted something like this before, but it's worth repeating.

1. Catholics must vote in America. If we don't vote, then there must be an extremely good reason why not.

2. Catholics must try to minimize the amount of evil performed. Since we don't have a presidential candidate who is 100% in line with Catholic teachings, we must go for the candidate that will limit evil the most. In other words, our vote must limit the amount of evil performed by the person who wins. If this is accomplished by a third party candidate, then we should vote for a third-party candidate. Our intentions alone do not determine whether or not we truly act well. We are morally responsible for our actions and the outcome of our actions, insofar as we are able to ascertain the outcome of our actions. Prudence, the virtue, is knowing the correct end and seeking the [i]best[/i] possible means to that end. If we don't act prudently, then we act in an evil manner and are morally culpable for the outcome that we could have (and didn't) prevent to the best of our ability.

3. Catholics, when forced to choose between an evil and a greater evil must choose the lesser of two evils. If there are three evils, we must choose the lesser of three, and so on. But again, see my previous point: intention alone is not all that matters. We can be held accountable for our inaction or the end sought as well. When Catholics act, they may only materially cooperate with evil (meaning that they cannot formally cooperate with evil, or choose to perform an action for the sake of an evil outcome). This means you can't support President Obama on account of his views on abortion or because of his views on marriage. If you cooperate materially in evil, you go along with evil to prevent a greater evil. Any material cooperation with evil must be as remote as possible, or the action performed is evil.

4. Catholics cannot vote for a 100% pro-abortion candidate, unless all candidates are pro-abortion. In this case Catholics must go for the best choice possible. The same goes for euthanasia, cloning, marriage, etc., though these cases do not receive equal weight.

5. This means Catholics must choose between someone who is for limiting abortions or flat-out stopping them. This goes for the other issues listed above as well.

6. Catholics not only cannot vote for a 100% pro-abortion candidate (unless they have no other choice), they must also try as hard as possible (legally) to keep such a candidate out of office. If they do not try as hard as possible to keep this person out of office, then they have materially cooperated in this person's election (by not preventing it). Material cooperation can occur when a person does not act, just as much as it can appear when they do act.

7. If there is an extremely pro-abortion (etc.) candidate, who can make things worse in our country or keep things where they are, then we ought to work as hard to keep him from obtaining office. By voting for a candidate who is very little pro-abortion, we are remotely and materially cooperating with evil insofar as we do not intend this person to be in charge, but intend the other person to stay out of office.

8. By voting for a completely pro-life candidate who has no chance of getting into office, we remotely and materially cooperate in the evil of whosoever ends up elected by not trying all possible to prevent that person from entering office. If the more pro-abortion candidate gets in, then the person who did not try to prevent his election is culpable for his actions. If the voter votes for the other candidate (the less pro-abortion candidate), then this culpability is mitigated.

9. If the person votes for the 5% pro-abortion candidate in order to keep the other candidate out of office, then he only materially cooperates in the candidate's election, because he did not elect the candidate for the candidate's sake.

10. It follows that the person who votes for the unelectable candidate remotely cooperates in the election of whoever gets elected. If he votes for the less pro-abortion candidate, then he only remotely cooperates in that person's election, regardless of the outcome.

11. It would be possible to vote for a third-party candidate if the evil prevented by such a vote outweighs the evil of abortion, marriage, etc., then we ought to vote third-party. However, recall that no matter what, intention is not enough to make an action good. We are just as culpable for the end perceived (and I don't mean intention, but what we know will come of our actions) as we are for performing a bad action in the first place. I think this is where the discussion should go. Is abortion a greater evil than our country politics?

Is the government now set up in such a way that is morally evil and will protect evil actions more than a different system. I don't think that limiting abortion decisions to states is more viable or more worthwhile than the current system.

Is leaving abortion decisions to the states a more prudent means of protecting the unborn?

Is Ron Paul's system really the best way to prevent evil and rid our government of true evil? Do we perceive the results of our actions helping as much as everyone says, or are we acting based only on ideals?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351049551' post='2496765']
Again, this is a Country with two major parties,. If you are a Republican & you vote for a 3rd party, you're voting for Obama. If you're Independent & you vote for a 3rd party, you're voting for Obama. Don't fool yourself.
[/quote]

nope. you're voting for the person you voted for.

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351049982' post='2496768']

And your a liberal, aren't you?
[/quote]


lol

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351049982' post='2496768']

And your a liberal, aren't you?
[/quote]

Okay, now you've crossed the line. [b]Winchester[/b] is now a liberal? He's a floppin anarchist for goodness' sake!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1351050226' post='2496771']

2. Catholics must try to minimize the amount of evil performed. Since we don't have a presidential candidate who is 100% in line with Catholic teachings, [b]we must go for the candidate that will limit evil the most.[/b] In other words, our vote must limit the amount of evil performed by the person who wins. If this is accomplished by a third party candidate, then we should vote for a third-party candidate. Our intentions alone do not determine whether or not we truly act well. We are morally responsible for our actions and the outcome of our actions, insofar as we are able to ascertain the outcome of our actions. Prudence, the virtue, is knowing the correct end and seeking the [i]best[/i] possible means to that end. If we don't act prudently, then we act in an evil manner and are morally culpable for the outcome that we could have (and didn't) prevent to the best of our ability.[/quote]

Faithful Citizenship #36.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351049982' post='2496768']

And your a liberal, aren't you?
[/quote]
*you're

Why would you think that?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1351050550' post='2496782']
*you're

Why would you think that?
[/quote]

because oh emmm gee if you're not a cheerleader for Romney, you must be a pro-abortion liberal!!

[Groo the Wanderer]

going to bed. if obama is reelected, its on your heads because you chose to vote for someone with no shot instead of voting his arse out. you gotta live with the consequences of your actions.