dUSt Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 The race is between Romney or Obama. Three options: 1. Vote Obama 2. Vote Romney 3. Don't vote / vote for third party Option 1 and 2 have a consequence. Option 3 is non-participation. Al, you are wrong to promote non-participation. We have an obligation to participate in public life. Sitting out by not voting for a viable candidate is not something my conscience will allow me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351026648' post='2496469'] The race is between Romney or Obama. Three options: 1. Vote Obama 2. Vote Romney 3. Don't vote / vote for third party Option 1 and 2 have a consequence. Option 3 is non-participation. Al, you are wrong to promote non-participation. We have an obligation to participate in public life. Sitting out by not voting for a viable candidate is not something my conscience will allow me to do. [/quote] Nope. He's not promoting non-participation. You just don't like it because he's not advocating for a way of voting you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 From the USCCB's doc "Faithful Citizenship", paragraph 36: "When all candidates hold a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter may decide to take the extraordinary step of not voting for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, may decide to vote for the candidate deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods" So we can choose, in good conscience, to abstain from voting, or to vote for the one who is least objectionable, which may or may not be a candidate of a major party. If someone feels their conscience leads him to vote for Romney, so be it, but mine won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1351027144' post='2496475'] Nope. He's not promoting non-participation. You just don't like it because he's not advocating for a way of voting you like. [/quote] You are not convincing me of his argument by saying I don't like it because he is saying something I don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351026648' post='2496469'] The race is between Romney or Obama. Three options: 1. Vote Obama 2. Vote Romney 3. Don't vote / vote for third party Option 1 and 2 have a consequence. Option 3 is non-participation. Al, you are wrong to promote non-participation. We have an obligation to participate in public life. Sitting out by not voting for a viable candidate is not something my conscience will allow me to do. [/quote] Directly supporting a man who wants to kill Iranians based on an evil view of the role of the United States isn't something I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351026028' post='2496458'] Mr. Obama is a good liar, I don't blame you for believing him. [/quote] hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no seriously. i'm no Obama supporter. (but I did seriously get a chuckle out of that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [i][color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]"When all candidates hold a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter may decide to take the extraordinary step of not voting for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, [/font][/color][b][color=#ff0000][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]may decide to vote for the candidate [/font][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position[/font][/color][/b][color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif] and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods."[/font][/color][/i] [font="Open Sans, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]I believe that between Romney and Obama, the choice is obviously clear on who is less likely to advance abortion. If you disagree, I am not questioning your moral compass or exercise of your good conscience. What I am questioning is your lack of a pragmatic and common sense approach to making your vote actually count for something.[/color][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1351027227' post='2496477'] From the USCCB's doc "Faithful Citizenship", paragraph 36: "When all candidates hold a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter [b]may decide[/b] to take the extraordinary step of not voting for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, [b]may decide[/b] to vote for the candidate deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods" So we can choose, in good conscience, to abstain from voting, or to vote for the one who is least objectionable, which may or may not be a candidate of a major party. If someone feels their conscience leads him to vote for Romney, so be it, but mine won't. [/quote] (key words highlighted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1351027848' post='2496485'] From the USCCB's doc "Faithful Citizenship", paragraph 36: "When all candidates hold a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter may decide to take [b]the [color=#ff0000]extraordinary [/color]step of not voting[/b] for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, may decide to vote for the candidate deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods" [/quote] (key words highlighted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 hahaha touche. who says this isn't extraordinary since both candidates support many of the same policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Alysious, Nihil, Red, MIKolbe and anyone else who is not voting for Romney. May I ask, who are you voting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Romneycare: Pays for abortions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1351027227' post='2496477'] From the USCCB's doc "Faithful Citizenship", paragraph 36: "When all candidates hold a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter may decide to take the extraordinary step of not voting for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, may decide to vote for the candidate deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods" So we can choose, in good conscience, to abstain from voting, or to vote for the one who is least objectionable, which may or may not be a candidate of a major party. If someone feels their conscience leads him to vote for Romney, so be it, but mine won't. [/quote]The Presidency isn't just about the individual. It's also about the specific party gaining additional power to direct and put into effect political agenda. The effects of voting are vastly different when voting for National or State Representative, Govenor, etc. The real change is done on the local political races and takes time. The Presidential race is more about supporting the specifica Political Party Machine that are already weilding power on a national level. In the Presidential race this year, only a Democrat or Republican candidate will win. What has the Democratic party done to support or fight against restricting abortion? Do you think the National Democratic party will do anything (on the National level) but further their efforts to provide readily available abortion, pay for it with tax dollars, and continually fight against efforts to restrict or limit abortion? If so, explain to me why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1351028249' post='2496496'] Alysious, Nihil, Red, MIKolbe and anyone else who is not voting for Romney. May I ask, who are you voting for? [/quote] nihil doesn't count. canadians. i'm still not sure. i'm not even sure that i'm not voting for Romney. i'm struggling. i may abstain and leave it blank. i don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Here's my issue with devout Catholics advocating the "Don't vote for Romney" agenda. It helps Obama get elected. I have no problem with Catholics, in good conscience, abstaining from voting or voting third party. That's fine. They are doing it with well informed consciences and for the right reasons... But here's the thing. [b]Most [/b]people are more pragmatic than that. [b]Most[/b] people will vote for either Obama or Romney. [b]Most[/b] people think exactly like me--voting third party is the equivalent of not voting. When a Catholic comes to this website, or goes on Facebook or Twitter, and sees these types of arguments, and have already decided that the only practical vote is one for either Romney or Obama, the "Don't vote for Romney" arguments only push them to vote for Obama. The "Don't vote for Romney" arguments do just that, persuade them NOT to vote for Romney. The only other [b]practical[/b] choice for [b]most[/b] people is to vote for Obama. So, even if I believe exactly what Alysious believes, I would never publicly try to argue my views in public, knowing full well that the [b]majority[/b] of people who read them will be voting two party. I cannot participate in giving people more reasons to vote for Obama. And sorry Al, like it or not, that is exactly what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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