eagle_eye222001 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1351000990' post='2496285'] ... As you state, one has to look at the bulk of what each political party actually has done. It's clear the Democratic Party is strongly promoting all these agendas. The Republicans seem to try to limit some of these agendas, at the same time attempting to not alienate voters. There are justifiable criticism that they haven't done enough or have been ineffective in restricting abortion. Public discourse in main stream media tends to paint positions in extremes just to grab and maintain attention. ... Voting for Obama, or not voting against him is showing support or showing 'no problem' with the agendas of the Democratic party. Another 4 years of Obama, along with a Democratic Party in power in both Congressional Houses, removes almost any limits on the power of the Party that brought us Governement Mandated Healthcare, is strongly pro- Same Sex Marriage, has forced Religious Institutions to provide and pay for abortion and contraception through mandated insurance, has done little or nothing to limit wars, and has done little or nothing to improve our economy to the point that jobs are created. This is their track record. Romney may not be significantly better in many of these areas, but at least there is some hope that "some" of these overreaching Government mandates will be slowed. It is a long process to change public opinion and effectively re-direct National Government direction. It's not going to happen overnight with one election, one president. You have to look at the fundamental beliefs of the the Party Members. Which party actively supports defending abortion and providing same sex marriage? Are these laws submitted more often by Democrats or Republicans? Which party tends to vote for or against them? These are the real factors in National Elections. Voting 3rd party or obstainingg in the presidential election is wasting votes. By the same basis, one should be carefully looking at your local Congressional races where your voice for another option has more value in supporting another option, with much less negative effect. [/quote] Basically, it comes to [b]hope[/b]. And that hope is not based on reason or fact.....it's based on simply hope. And we have to settle for "slowing" stuff? That is wasting your vote. You waste your vote when you support the status quo and vote nearly identical people in who are going to advance Obama's agenda anyway. Take a beaver dam stand. Obama may win. But we should start the fight NOW to Restore America! We do not restore America by supporting Romney. [quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1351001306' post='2496288'] Obama is worse. Where are our (realistic) options? We need to do the best we can. We can't let Obama get a second term. [/quote] But the facts say Romney is basically = to Obama. So you and many other's say we can't let Obama get a second term. But you are willing to elect someone nearly identical to him in every way win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) At the same time, Gary Johnson is pro-choice and Virgil Goode is pro-torture, pro-death penalty, and has serious issues with Islam and "non-European immigrants." There is no good candidate here at all, if you ask me. NB: I am not a Romney supporter -- in fact, I don't like any of them. I just don't know what the correct response is morally, aside from leaving it blank... Edited October 23, 2012 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1351017591' post='2496388'] NB: I am not a Romney supporter -- in fact, I don't like any of them. I just don't know what the correct response is morally, aside from leaving it blank... [/quote] I believe that is an excellent response to a truly awful system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1351017591' post='2496388'] At the same time, Gary Johnson is pro-choice and Virgil Goode is pro-torture, pro-death penalty, and has serious issues with Islam and "non-European immigrants." There is no good candidate here at all, if you ask me. NB: I am not a Romney supporter -- in fact, I don't like any of them. I just don't know what the correct response is morally, aside from leaving it blank... [/quote] If Gary Johnson was about state's deciding the marriage and abortion issue, Catholics could cleanly support him. Pretty sure he supports gay marriage at the federal level which I don't think makes sense. Virgil Goode.......death penalty isn't an intrinsic evil so I don't hold that against him. He would actually cut government a lot, so that's a huge plus. Torture and immigrant position is unfortunate, but he's definitely the least evil of them all so I would argue one can and should legit support him. At the very least, by supporting him, your vote gets counted and sends a real signal to help reform the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1351017388' post='2496386'] Basically, it comes to [b]hope[/b]. And that hope is not based on reason or fact.....it's based on simply hope. And we have to settle for "slowing" stuff? That is wasting your vote. You waste your vote when you support the status quo and vote nearly identical people in who are going to advance Obama's agenda anyway. Take a beaver dam stand. Obama may win. But we should start the fight NOW to Restore America! We do not restore America by supporting Romney. But the facts say Romney is basically = to Obama. So you and many other's say we can't let Obama get a second term. But you are willing to elect someone nearly identical to him in every way win? [/quote]It isn't wasting your vote. Pay attention and look at historical reality dealing with the political realities. Yes, if you can't stop something, it's better to try to slow it down if it is impossible to stop it. Slowing something down gives you more time and opportunity to try and stop something. Throwing up your hands and giving up because you can't stop something is only ensuring failure. Do something meaningful now, even if it's only as small victory or gaining a little time. If Obama wins, all that does is give more political power and political inertia to the political Party that fully supports unrestricted abortion as a political goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I don't like Gary or Virgil. I was actually unaware of Virgil's stance on torture, though. I don't like Gary largely because he's pro-choice (and for a few other reasons) but I do think his positions would mitigate abortion more than Romney or Obama, as he would be likely to appoint states-rights constitutionalist judges rather than status-quo judges to the Supreme Court. as eagle eye said, he's for gay marriage on a federal level, which REALLY doesn't make any freaking sense from a "libertarian"; but whatever, I still think he's better than Romney/Obama; at least there's a clear difference, and I think on abortion even though he's personally pro-choice his positions would mitigate it more than Romney/Obama. Like I said in another thread, it's okay to vote pragmatically when all the candidates have serious issues with them, to vote for someone that's a step in the right direction; Gary Johnson and Virgil Goode are both steps in the right direction away from Obama and Romney, so I think they're legitimate choices given that so many of the choices are bad. I personally advocate either a write in or leaving POTUS blank on your ballot. I don't see a vote for Romney as any sort of legitimate slowing down of anything. No matter who wins at POTUS, there will continue to be congressional battles over the things Obama has set in motion (things that Romney is making himself increasingly clear that he's largely unopposed to); no matter who wins at POTUS, those things will continue with the same trajectory and spead. Romney has no intention of standing in their way, because he actually supports them; he'll just serve as a figure to try to silence the congressmen of his own party; and he'll largely succeed so long as the public perception is that there is now Republican "conservative" leadership and no one in congress will want to step outside the party lines to oppose him. Edited October 23, 2012 by Aloysius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 being disgusted with all candidates, I am strongly leaning towards abstaining from the pres. vote. Don't worry, "you are helping Obama/freak out" people, I am not from a swing state, your point is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1351018488' post='2496401'] It isn't wasting your vote. Pay attention and look at historical reality dealing with the political realities. Yes, if you can't stop something, it's better to try to slow it down if it is impossible to stop it. Slowing something down gives you more time and opportunity to try and stop something. Throwing up your hands and giving up because you can't stop something is only ensuring failure. Do something meaningful now, even if it's only as small victory or gaining a little time. If Obama wins, all that does is give more political power and political inertia to the political Party that fully supports unrestricted abortion as a political goal. [/quote] Totally agree with this wise woman here. Obama had his chance, we're worse off than we've ever been during my entire existence. Everything out of his mouth is a lie & he's pro-everything that is morally wrong! It's time for a new direction for this country. I'm "wasting" my vote on Romney instead of on some third party when either B.O. or M.R. will be our next president. The real [b][u]bottom line[/u][/b] is only God can save us now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 *psst* Anomaly is a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1351022346' post='2496435'] Everything out of Romney's mouth is a lie & he's pro-everything that is morally wrong! It's time for [s]a new[/s] the same direction for this country. [/quote] fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1351022343' post='2496434'] being disgusted with all candidates, I am strongly leaning towards abstaining from the pres. vote. Don't worry, "you are helping Obama/freak out" people, I am not from a swing state, your point is invalid. [/quote]i am from a swing state, and still won't vote Romney or Obama. I fell for that line about having to vote with the 2-party system last time, and I've regretted it ever since. I will vote my conscience, which will likely be either writing in someone or abstaining from the presidential vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1351015520' post='2496369'] in his defense, he calls himself a troll. [/quote] If that be the case then I think it is quite clear that the GOP doesn't know Jack, and therefore I would suspect Democratic leanings from him. Once Romney wins this election by a landslide terrorists like him shall be banned from the Internets. Careful Jack, we're coming for you. Edited October 23, 2012 by r2Dtoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1351022714' post='2496439'] *psst* Anomaly is a man. [/quote] Whoops, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1351022787' post='2496440'] fixed. [/quote] Mr. Obama is a good liar, I don't blame you for believing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I have a feeling that Red does not believe anything Obama says, including "and" and "the". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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