Nihil Obstat Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1351348895' post='2498530'] *bites Nihil's leg* [/quote] "Don't flame me, bro!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1351353619' post='2498554'] How come NARAL sounds really scared of Romney? [/quote] Because they're in the tank for Obama and all Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1351353619' post='2498554'] How come NARAL sounds really scared of Romney? [/quote] it's called politics. you use the issues as weapons to take down your opponents; do some of them really believe he's a big bad pro-life hero? sure, some of them; most of them are just playing the game to win from their side, so they see Romney's pro-life rhetoric as a means of attacking him. If Romney were to be totally pro-choice, the same people would be attacking him for something else, probably through a different organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 But the whole point of NARAL is to promote abortion (or "choice") in America. Wouldn't it be more politically expedient for them to [i]support[/i] Republicans who are truly as for abortion as Obama? If they can convince Republicans to support abortion, then their goal is accomplished. Or do you really think they'll put other political positions ahead of their goal to ensure abortions remain as legal as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 that's not really how politics works, the only effect that supporting a pro-choice Republican would have when there's a perfectly good pro-choice Democrat is to deflate the base and make it less enthusiastic. they get lots of donations and support by drumming up fear among pro-choice voters that Romney will take away abortion. anyone who pays attention understands abortion is not under threat from either side in this election, but both sides benefit by making it seem like it is--in money and votes. of course that doesn't mean there aren't people in NARAL who buy into the hype and actually believe Romney is pro-life. just like there are people on the pro-life side who buy into the hype as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 But you're saying that once Romney gets into office he'll stop playing this sort of politics himself and just give in to the pro-abortion crowd in different ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1351381565' post='2498865'] But you're saying that once Romney gets into office he'll stop playing this sort of politics himself and just give in to the pro-abortion crowd in different ways? [/quote] No. We're saying he will do nothing about this issue one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351400135' post='2498988'] No. We're saying he will do nothing about this issue one way or the other. [/quote]So compared to Obama, how is that not an improvement on this issue? You think Obama does nothing and will do nothing on this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1351401959' post='2498993'] So compared to Obama, how is that not an improvement on this issue? You think Obama does nothing and will do nothing on this issue? [/quote] A) This has nothing to do with Obama. One candidate is pro-choice. So is the other. B) No, I don't think Obama will do anything about abortion in the next 4 years, which would go right alongside the nothing that he's done during his first 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351422622' post='2499039'] A) This has nothing to do with Obama. One candidate is pro-choice. So is the other. B) No, I don't think Obama will do anything about abortion in the next 4 years, which would go right alongside the nothing that he's done during his first 4 years. [/quote] he overturned the mexico city policy ban. i wouldn't say that's nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351422622' post='2499039'] A) This has nothing to do with Obama. One candidate is pro-choice. So is the other. B) No, I don't think Obama will do anything about abortion in the next 4 years, which would go right alongside the nothing that he's done during his first 4 years. [/quote]Did I claim that Romney is pro-life? It's unacceptable to compare candidates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351422622' post='2499039'] B) No, I don't think Obama will do anything about abortion in the next 4 years, which would go right alongside the nothing that he's done during his first 4 years. [/quote] November 19, 2008 – Obama picks pro-abortion former Sen. Tom Daschleas his Health and Human Services Secretary. Daschle has a long pro-abortion voting record according to National Right to Life. January 23, 2009 – Forces taxpayers to fund pro-abortion groups that either promote or perform abortions in other nations. Decision to overturn Mexico City Policy sends part of $457 million to pro-abortion organizations. February 27, 2009 – Starts the process of overturning pro-life conscience protections President Bush put in place to make sure medical staff and centers are not forced to do abortions. February 28, 2009 – Barack Obama nominates pro-abortion Kathleen Sebelius to become Secretary of Health and Human Services. March 5, 2009 – The Obama administration shut out pro-life groups from attending a White House-sponsored health care summit. Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion business, made the invitation list as did other pro-abortion groups. March 9, 2009 – President Barack Obama signed an executive order forcing taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research. March 10, 2009 – Obama announces the creation of a new foreign policy position to focus on women’s issues. He names Melanne Verveer, an abortion advocate, to occupy the post. March 10, 2009 – Reverses an executive order to press for more research into ways of obtaining embryonic stem cells without harming human life. The order Obama scrapped would have promoted new forms of stem cell research. March 11, 2009 – Obama administration promotes an unlimited right to abortion at a United Nations meeting. March 11, 2009 – Obama administration officials deny negative effects of abortion at United Nation’s meeting. March 17, 2009 – President Barack Obama makes his first judicial appointment and names pro-abortion federal Judge David Hamilton to serve on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. March 26 – President Obama announced $50 million for the UNFPA, the UN population agency that has been criticized for promoting abortion and working closely with Chinese population control officials who use forced abortions and involuntary sterilizations. April 7 – The Vatican has rejected three Obama ambassador nominees because of their positions in favor of abortions. April 23 – Refused to appeal a ruling requiring the FDA to allow 17-year-old girls to purchase the morning after pill without either a doctor visit or parental involvement beforehand. May 8 – President Obama releases a new budget that allows the Legal Services Corporation to use tax dollars to pay for pro-abortion litigation. May 8 – President Obama’s new budget calls for taxpayer funded abortions in the nation’s capital. May 8 – President Obama’s budget eliminates all federal funding for abstinence-only education. May 15 – Appointed pro-abortion New York City health commissioner Thomas Frieden as head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. May 17 – During his commencement speech at Notre Dame, Obama deceived listeners into thinking he wants a conscience clause, promoted embryonic stem cell research and misstated his pro-abortion record. May 26 – Appoints appeals court judge Sonia Sonotmayoras a Supreme Court nominee. Sotomayor agrees that the courts should make policy, such as the Roe v. Wade case. Sotomayor is later opposed by pro-life groups and supported by pro-abortion groups and those who know her say she will support abortion on the high court. July 7- The Obama administration admits it ignored the majority of Americans who opposed the proposed guidelines that would implement Obama’s decision to force taxpayers to fund embryonic stem cell research. October 5 – Announces he will give the keynote speech for pro-abortion group Human Rights Campaign. December 2 – Authorized taxpayer funding for embryonic stem cell research that kills days-old unborn children. December 16 – Obama administration forces Americans a second time to spend millions more on embryonic stem cell research that destroys human life. December 17 – Signed a bill that overturned the 13-year-long ban on funding abortions with tax dollars in the nation’s capital. February 2, 2010 – Submits new budget calling for taxpayer funding of abortions and more money for Planned Parenthood. February 5, 2010 – The Obama administration issued a new order for the U.S. military requiring all military hospitals and health centers to stock the morning after pill. February 16, 2010 – White House visitor logs reveal Obama has given Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards frequent access to top staffers. February 22, 2010 – Unveils changes to the pro-abortion health care bill that keep abortion funding, expand abortion funding, and require a monthly abortion fee on Americans. March 22, 2010 – Signs the pro-abortion health care bill into law that contains massive abortion funding, no conscience protections and rationing. March 24, 2010 – Signs executive order purporting to ban abortion funding that leaves taxpayer funding of abortions in place. April 7, 2010 – Obama administration pressures Kenya to adopt a new constitution that would legalize unlimited abortions. May 8, 2010 – Obama’s federal budget eliminates abstinence education funding. May 10, 2010 – Names pro-abortion activist Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court; she is strongly opposed by pro-life groups. June 23, 2010 – Obama administration approves more federal taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research. July 16, 2010 – The Obama administration also planned to fund abortions under the national health care plan in Maryland. July 19, 2010 – A new report indicates the Obama administration has spent as much as $23 million to influence residents of Kenya to vote for a proposed constitution that essentially legalizes abortion. August 16, 2010 – Obama administration approves new abortion drug Ella. August 24, 2010 – Obama administration appeals a judge’s ruling saying Obama violated a national law when forcing taxpayers to fund embryonic stem cell research. August 26, 2010 – Cuts funding for 176 abstinence education programs.. December 14, 2010 – Obama administration admits it is working to rescind conscience protections for medical professionals who don’t want to participate in abortions. February 7, 2011 – Obama rewards Catholic group that supported pro-abortion Obamacare with place on faith based panel. March 2, 2011 – Obama administration refuses to investigate videos showing Planned Parenthood helping alleged sex traffickers get abortions for victimized underage girls. March 4, 2011 – Obama threatens to veto bill de-funding Planned Parenthood abortion business. March 11, 2011 – Obama nominates pro-abortion activists Steve Six for federal appeals court position. April 11, 2011 – Refuses Speaker John Boehner’s request to cut taxpayer funding to the Planned Parenthood abortion business. April 14, 2011 – Obama administration castigates The Vatican over family planning. July 7, 2011 – Report shows Obama policies resulted in 300 tax-funded abortions in Washington, D.C. August 1, 2011 – Forces insurance companies to pay for abortion drugs under Obamacare. September 21, 2011 – Obama’s Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius speaks at a pro-abortion fundraiser. September 28, 2011 – Mandates additional taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research. October 12, 2011 – Obama administration cuts anti-sex trafficking grant to the nation’s Catholic bishops over abortion. November 16, 2011 – Report finds Obama administration broke the law pushing abortion in Kenya. December 12, 2011 – Obama administration blocks Texas’ attempt to de-fund Planned Parenthood. January 22, 2012 – Puts in place a new mandate forcing religious employers to pay for birth control and drugs that may cause abortions. February 7, 2012 – The Obama administration silenced Catholic Army chaplains from reading a letter that criticized the Obama administration on its new mandate that forces religious employers to pay for coverage for employees that includes birth control and drugs that can cause abortions. February 10, 2012 – Obama revises the birth control mandate to require insurance companies to provide it along with free drugs that may cause abortions. March 5, 20120 – President Obama’s budget calls for ending funding to the snowflake embryo adoption program. March 5, 2012 – Obama admin agency has declared that Pepsi’s use of the company and its controversial flavor testing process constitutes “ordinary business.†March 12, 2012 – The Obama administration has been arranging abortions for illegal immigrants. March 13, 2012 – The Obama administration has issued the final rules on abortion funding governing the controversial health care law including an abortion surcharge of at least $1. March 15, 2012 – Obama administration tries to kill Texas health program because it de-funded Planned Parenthood. April 20, 2012 – White House hires the former top spokesman for the Planned Parenthood abortion business as deputy assistant secretary for public affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services. July 16, 2012 – Obama Admin Sends $3.1 Million More to Planned Parenthood July 25, 2012 – For the third time this month and the fifth time overall, the Obama administration has overriden the decision of a state to revoke taxpayer funding for the Planned Parenthood abortion business. September 26, 2012 – Obama Admin Appeals Decision Against Abortion-HHS Mandate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That list is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 it's a pretty good list from lifenews... too long to really go through point by point, here's the main points I think, each spanning over multiple items in the list: Mexico City Policy/Foreign Support of Abortions HHS Mandate De-funding Planned Parenthood Funding Abortions in DC We already went over the Mexico City policy stuff, in that studies show that foreign aid contributes to as many abortions with or without the Mexico City policy in place because all funds are fungible. There are a couple of other disturbing things on the foreign front though, I remain unconvinced that Romney will turn them around except in very inconsequential ways. I've already gone over the HHS mandate stuff, which a lot of this is referring to. Romney is likely to back the settled precedents as he did for contraceptive mandates in his own Romney-care, in my opinion, and as his statements at the second debate indicated. tax-funded abortions in DC is an issue I was unaware of; is this referencing federal tax dollars, or DC tax dollars? what has Mitt "I don't foresee any abortion related legislation" said specifically about this particular issue? I'd like to see an argument showing what Mitt will do better... I've seen a couple of decent arguments scattered around these threads in the midst of the general indignant-at-not-voting-for-romney drivel that has been unhelpful; your list is a pretty good list of the things Obama has done that are bad; I'm not sure I foresee Mitt doing any more than slightly better (if better at all); I suppose a decent argument could be made that the pro-abortion agenda might slow down slightly... not sure that's a big enough reason to vote for the man, though. whoever wins we must be vigilant and pay attention to what is being done. especially if Romney wins, as it is a danger that the pro-life movement would drop the ball and let their guard down because of his rhetoric placating us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1351448474' post='2499172'] I suppose a decent argument could be made that the pro-abortion agenda might slow down slightly... not sure that's a big enough reason to vote for the man, though. [/quote] Good enough for me. Oh, I asked my new kid, who happens to still be inside my wife, what he thought. It sounded like he said it was good enough for him too, but it was a bit muffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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