Politicians And The Eucharist

[mulls]

[url="http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/21344.htm"]http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/21344.htm[/url]





i say let them have communion. just make sure that verse from 1 Corinthians is read during every mass. the politicians would be responsible to God for their own actions.

[Guest AloysiusGhost]

no, they are not in communion with the Church. For them to receive would not only hurt them, it would hurt the entire Church. that is why a particular emphasis against politicians is made, because they represent the Church in public. Anyone who claims to be Catholic and publicly goes against the Church must be publicly reprimanded for the sake of the Church.

[mulls]

so would they have to publicly repent to get back in communion, or would confession to a priest be enough?

[Dave]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 21 2004, 10:57 AM'] so would they have to publicly repent to get back in communion, or would confession to a priest be enough? [/quote]
Well, they'd have to confess to a priest first of all. However, considering the damage they've probably done to souls by their promotion of abortion, it would only be right that they publicly repent in order to help some of the damage they caused.

[dUSt]

If it was a smart priest, the penance would be to publically repent.

I am curious to hear from more non-Catholics though, on what they think about the Church seemingly taking a bigger stand on the abortion issue--and the attempts by a lot of bishops to have it affect politics?

As a non-Catholic Christian, would you like to see a statement by the pope telling bishops and priests that they should deny sacraments to pro-abortion politicians? Would you see this as a win for Christianity, or do you think most Christians would just ignore it as "a Catholic thing"?

[mulls]

[quote name='dUSt' date='May 21 2004, 02:44 PM']
As a non-Catholic Christian, would you like to see a statement by the pope telling bishops and priests that they should deny sacraments to pro-abortion politicians? Would you see this as a win for Christianity, or do you think most Christians would just ignore it as "a Catholic thing"? [/quote]
that would be cool, as long as it is clearly stated why they are being denied...which is obvious.


it probably would be thought of as a "catholic thing," but i for one would applaud it.....if, along with the denial of sacraments, the church would tell them to turn around and give their lives totally to Christ, and not just change their stand on certain political issues.

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote]i say let them have communion. just make sure that verse from 1 Corinthians is read during every mass. the politicians would be responsible to God for their own actions.[/quote]

this wouldn't be possible because the Church has the responsiblity to share and represent Truth to all and to distinguish Herself from anything that is NOT truth.

the Church will never teach anything false as Truth.

that is why the action is beign taken.

[quote]it probably would be thought of as a "catholic thing," but i for one would applaud it.....if, along with the denial of sacraments, the church would tell them to turn around and give their lives totally to Christ, and not just change their stand on certain political issues. [/quote]

exactly! thats what its all about mulls and thats what the Church says and preaches every sunday to all giving our lives totally to God....if we [i]truly[/i] follow Him (and not majority votes or politics) we will not go and compromise, contradict or misrepresent truth like some politicians may find themselves doing......

[BeenaBobba]

Okay, I'm going to rant, so bear with me.

I'm so, very annoyed at the pro-abortion politicians who seem believe that receiving Holy Communion is a civil right. The Eucharist -- the [b]body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ[/b] -- is only to be given to those in a state of grace, and to Catholics in good standing with the Church. [b]1 Cor. 11:23-29[/b] says that the body and blood of Jesus Christ, i.e., the Eucharist is [b]not[/b] to be taken unworthily. Anyone who supports abortion cannot be and is not in good standing with the Catholic Church. That being said, it's unbelievable that pro-abortion politicians whine about the Church stepping into politics. Yes, it's true that the Church opposes abortion, but the Church opposes murder as well. Why don't we see politicians complaining that the Church is imposing its views on the public when it opposes murder? Would anyone complain if the Catholic Church denied Communion to a politician who supported murdering teenagers? I highly doubt it! And since the Church views abortion as murder, how could the Church not condemn it? If politicians such as John Kerry are claiming to be Catholic, I don't see why they're surprised when the Catholic Church deals with them accordingly. If you claim to be Catholic, then yes, you are spiritually under the authority of the Catholic Church. And since that's the case, you have no right at all to whine when the Church says you cannot receive Communion because you're going against the teachings of the Catholic Church. If they want to be Catholic, they've got to play by the rules. Period.

I also think the whole line about how denying Communion to pro-abortion politicians will make people more anti-Catholic, and pro-abortion politicians therefore shouldn't be denied Communion, is a bit ridiculous. [b]Mt. 5:10[/b] comes to mind in rebuttal to that. Speaking the truth isn't always going to win you a popularity contest, but that does not mean that the Church shouldn't speak the truth. And when it comes down to defiling the Holy Eucharist and hurting someone's feelings because they're denied the Eucharist, I'll take hurting someone's feelings [b]any day[/b].

Rant off.

God bless,

Jennifer

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='May 21 2004, 04:57 PM']Okay, I'm going to rant, so bear with me. 

I'm so, very annoyed at the pro-abortion politicians who seem believe that receiving Holy Communion is a civil right.  The Eucharist -- the [b]body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ[/b] -- is only to be given to those in a state of grace, and to Catholics in good standing with the Church.  [b]1 Cor. 11:23-29[/b] says that the body and blood of Jesus Christ, i.e., the Eucharist is [b]not[/b] to be taken unworthily.  Anyone who supports abortion cannot be and is not in good standing with the Catholic Church.  That being said, it's unbelievable that pro-abortion politicians whine about the Church stepping into politics.  Yes, it's true that the Church opposes abortion, but the Church opposes murder as well.  Why don't we see politicians complaining that the Church is imposing its views on the public when it opposes murder?  Would anyone complain if the Catholic Church denied Communion to a politician who supported murdering teenagers?  I highly doubt it!  And since the Church views abortion as murder, how could the Church not condemn it?  If politicians such as John Kerry are claiming to be Catholic, I don't see why they're surprised when the Catholic Church deals with them accordingly.  If you claim to be Catholic, then yes, you are spiritually under the authority of the Catholic Church.  And since that's the case, you have no right at all to whine when the Church says you cannot receive Communion because you're going against the teachings of the Catholic Church.  If they want to be Catholic, they've got to play by the rules.  Period.

I also think the whole line about how denying Communion to pro-abortion politicians will make people more anti-Catholic, and pro-abortion politicians therefore shouldn't be denied Communion, is a bit ridiculous.  [b]Mt. 5:10[/b] comes to mind in rebuttal to that.  Speaking the truth isn't always going to win you a popularity contest, but that does not mean that the Church shouldn't speak the truth.  And when it comes down to defiling the Holy Eucharist and hurting someone's feelings because they're denied the Eucharist, I'll take hurting someone's feelings [b]any day[/b].

Rant off. 

God bless,

Jennifer[/quote]
WOW! Tell it like it is . . . yeah, I think I'll go to open mic and vote Militant for you BeenaBobba, That was AWESOME!


God Bless You for you stand
Pax
Jason

[Ellenita]

[quote]the politicians will be responsible to God for their own actions[/quote]

We're all going to have to face the judgement of God for our own actions, including politicians!

Interestingly the Catholic press in the UK has been quite mixed in it's response to the issue of denying the Eucharist to politicians who support abortion. I wonder if this is because we [i]do[/i] have a church which is tied up with the state (although of course not the catholic church!) - the result hasn't been that positive with both the church and the state seeming to interfere in the affairs of the other and a great deal of compromise on the part of the church.

It's very painful not to be able to recieve the Blessed Sacrament (I remember the months of this before Easter Vigil! ), but in my mind there is no question that the bishops are right in their decision. It seems to me that the politicians are publicly going against church teaching in their actions and yet also conveniently publicly stating they are Catholic in a society where being a christian can have a direct impact on whether or not people will vote for you - now that's hypocrisy!

[Rebirth flame]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 21 2004, 10:57 AM'] so would they have to publicly repent to get back in communion, or would confession to a priest be enough? [/quote]
ummm... i dunno if anyone already said this, cuz i'm too lazy to read all of this topic, but generally with confession, to show repentance you have to try your best to undo what you've done wrong.

in confession, you have to be truly sorry for the wrongs that you've commited. (usually this is spurred from a desire to meet God in Heaven, or from a fear of spending eternity in hell, but i'm sure there are more situations floating around out there...) so, one way to really show how sorry you are is to try and undo what you've done to the best of your ability.

here's a scenario for you:

so like, hypothetically, if i stole someones car, and i confessed it to a priest, i would have to give their car back to show that i'm truly repentant. if i kept their car after confession, it wouldn't really show that i was sorry, would it?

so i'm pretty sure that a politician would have to denounce abortion publically, since he publically said that it was ok. this would work to undo some of the damage that he'd already done, and show that he is truly repentant for the sin that he committed.

now, he could go a step farther too, by working with others to end the evil of abortion altogether, which would be really cool...

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Ok, I did something thats going to back fire on me.

How many of you watch FoxNews? I wake up to it and sleep to it.

Congressman Bart Stupak was on there a few days ago talking about Catholics being denied Communion.

I just sent him an email...tell me how stupid it was.

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Congressman,

I watched you on FoxNews and im glad you are a devout Catholic, we need more of them in Congress. But what you are saying about the Church is wrong..being a Catholic is not a civil right, its a priviledge. Being a Catholic is a way of life, not just a Sunday thing. Im sorry but you and the other Congressman who are pro-death are not in Communion with the Church because of your stance on Abortion, which is an intrinsic Evil, innocent babies being slaughtered lawfully.

As a Catholic you must know the Psalms which clearly say "I knew you from conception...". God knows each baby as they are conceived, its not a blog or tissue, its a human being created by God.

But thats not the argument congressman. The Argument is whether you should recieve the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ when you are in mortal sin. And believing in abortion is a mortal sin. The answer of course is NO, you should not.

You Congressman are a public figure, people see your actions and are influenced by them. You are also a Catholic and if your a good Catholic you put that first and foremost saying "Before I am an American, Before I am a Congressman, Before I am White, Before I am a Male...I AM Catholic) You are suppose to live and breathe by it..We are created why? To Know God, to Love God, and to Serve God so that we can be with forever. Voting for abortion is NOT Loving God, its against God and a sin.

So what should you do now Congressman? I want you back in Communion with the Church. And it doesnt matter what you or other people say. God didnt give you the Keys to the Kingdom saying "Whatever you Bind on Earth shall be Bound in Heaven, Whatever you Loose on Earth shall be Loosed in Heaven" - Those words are for the Vicar of Christ. If He says you are NOT in Communion with the Church, then you are not. Simple as that.

Here's what I suggest, Go to confession, Confess that you voted for Abortion and support it (not just Parital Birth but ALL Abortion). Publicly Renounce that you support Abortion because your Catholic Faith, which is strong, says its wrong. Then you will be back in Communion with Christ, and I tell ya, people will look up to you for that.

Despite what all these biased Polls say, MORE THAN HALF of the USA is AGAINST Abortion.

If you was to take a vote today on it in the voting booths on whether abortion should be law or not, it would NOT be a law.


Congressman, in another 100 years you wont be around..neither will I, We will then be in Eternity, whether it be Hell or Heaven.
What we do now in this little time is going to determine this.
When you die God's not going to care that you are a Congressman, He's going to see the things you set forth AS A Congressman (i.e Abortion, Homosexual Unions)

May God open your heart and bring you back in Union With His Church.

Steve xxxxxxxxx

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[Rebirth flame]

it was very well written!!! i didn't see the actual program on the FoxNews network with him, but i gathered as much from what you said prior to and during your email. I don't know what attitude he chose to be in on the news show (like cocky, angry, depressed, etc...), so that could influence what he thinks about the email.

i thought that you hit all the important points, and you didn't seem to beat up on him (to me, at least. i dunno what anybody else thought).

keep on evangelizing!!!

[Oik]

I am overjoyed that some bishops have the humility and will to deny those Catholic politicans communion. Unfortunately, that is not so with some others around the rest of the US.

[Anna]

I stand with the bishops who call for denial of Holy Communion to those public figures who deny a baby's right to life.

This action has been a long time coming: Abortion was decriminalized in 1972!!! Millions of babies have lost their lives since then, and dozens of Catholic politicians have set an example of faithlessness and lukewarmness.

As the old saying goes, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

If we don't stand up for the Source, Summit, and Center of our Faith: The Most Holy Eucharist, and for the Gift of Life, then we're really just calling ourselves Catholics, just as the politicians are.

Let them know that the Emperor has no clothes! Let them know that as public figures, they cannot publicly renounce Church Teachings on Faith and Morals, then trot up to receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ as if it was just another political photo-op to garner the Catholic vote!

No one who calls himself "Catholic" can support abortion, artificial contraception, euthanasia, or same sex unions. These aren't our rules, they are God's rules.

And elected officials don't rule.

God rules.

Pax Christi. <><