Confusion In Regards To Homosexuality And The Church

[jazzytakara]

As some of you may know, I am currently taking RCIA. But since I am converting from a very liberal (and some Protestants and Catholics describe it as Presbyterian Hippie Church), some conflicts have come to mind, some easier to deal with than others. One of the most prominent is in regards to homosexuality. The United Church of Canada openly accepts it, I was raised to accept it to (this came to be through ignoring certain scriptural references, the belief that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, or that the Bible is open to only be a reference that we can interpret freely:as in if we don't like some of it don't believe it). So converting to the Catholic Church where acting on homosexuality/same sex attraction is openly forbidden is relatively new, and as we all know, modern society isn't too happy with this stance. I have close relatives and friends who are homosexual and I love them immensely, so I have trouble understanding why homosexuality is so wrong, when all they are trying to do is find love in their lives like the rest of their peers. I want my cousin and friends to be happy and know love, and maybe a part of them is afraid that they will hate me for even considering that they shouldn't pursue their happiness. I've been acting in a manner of not talking about it, loving them, wanting their happiness, and not judging them, as I am a sinner more so than they may be, I'm just really confused. I was raised to support equal rights, but God is pretty clear the matter. So trying to think that part was added into the Bible causes everything unravel. I want to be able to take the Eucharist come Easter, so I need to figure this out. Can anyone help me understand?

[tinytherese]

I suggest reading Sexual Authenticity: An Intimate Reflection on Homosexuality and Catholicism by Melinda Selmys.

[CatherineM]

If you truly love someone, you don't want them to hurt themselves. That "two people who love each other" stuff gets so old. What if the two people are brother and sister or uncle and nephew? How about a 12 year old boy and a 40 year old man? How about a 40 year old man and a goat? Where does it end.

Civilization was built on families building communities. Right now it seems like our communities aren't being built up, they are being torn down. I don't think it is a coincidence that we are also living in a time when traditional families are under assault from all sides.

[MissScripture]

Here is a great homily about "gay marriage." [url="http://www.umdcatholic.org/homilies/27thOrdinaryB2012-CalledtoLove.mp3"]http://www.umdcatholic.org/homilies/27thOrdinaryB2012-CalledtoLove.mp3[/url]
As a little background: This priest is from Minnesota, where, right now there is an amendment on the ballot to declare that marriage is between one man and one woman, so that's what he's talking about at the beginning.

[PhuturePriest]

Of course we want people to be happy; we support their wish to do so and we wouldn't have it any other way. However, homosexuality does not lead to happiness. It leads to sorrow and regret. There is a reason homosexual partners that said they were exclusive have an extremely high rate of cheating, much higher than straight couples. Homosexuals and their promiscuity is extremely high compared to straight people who are dubbed as promiscuous. The fact of the matter is, if they want true happiness for each other, they wouldn't do this to themselves. I find it is best to give the floor to those who know what they are talking about, so here are some links by Jason Evert on the subject:

[url="http://chastity.com/chastity-qa/homosexuality/homosexuality/if-two-people-same-s"]http://chastity.com/...o-people-same-s[/url]
[url="http://chastity.com/chastity-qa/homosexuality/homosexuality/how-can-people-say-h"]http://chastity.com/...an-people-say-h[/url]
http://chastity.com/chastity-qa/homosexuality/homosexuality/what-causes-homosexu

Edited October 20, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[Basilisa Marie]

First, I'd say that you're right in acting in a manner that is loving and kind towards your close friends and relatives who are homosexual. After all, people aren't going to change their ways if you constantly beat them over the head with some Doomhammer of Truth. That being said, once you come to accept the Church's position on homosexuality (and other sexual ethics), it shouldn't stop you from letting them know where you stand, if the question arises. It's a difficult and sometimes awkward and unpopular line to walk.

Second, I find it easier to accept the Church's position on homosexual behavior when I put it in context of the rest of the Church's teaching on sexual ethics. That's the key - most of the Church's individual teachings on sexual ethics aren't going to make sense outside the whole system (birth control, divorce, homosexual behavior, etc). Thing is, all sexual behavior is supposed to be reserved for marriage. And marriage is about unity AND procreation. In a perfect world, a marriage would be centered on helping each other grow in holiness and producing children, whom the parents raise and teach to grow in holiness. But because we don't live in a perfect world, not all marriages are centered around the couple's holiness, or result in natural children. And the Church has ways of helping us work within this reality (adoption, marriage counseling, separation in abusive relationships, etc). If the Church allowed homosexual marriage, it would be effectively saying that the procreative aspect of marriage doesn't actually matter. It also would be saying that the procreative element of sex doesn't actually matter. And it does - while sex is definitely an activity that strengthens a couple's bond, it's also more obviously how humans procreate. Even from a purely scientific perspective, that's the purpose of sex. It's reproduction, and any bonding that occurs is only because it's better (higher survival rate) for a human couple to raise children together. We can't ignore that.

I think it's also important to remember that heterosexual couples who aren't married are supposed to be held to the same standard. Often heterosexual couples will try to argue that some sexual activities are "okay" because they aren't "going all the way" and that they're discerning marriage anyway. It's the "how far is too far" question. But that's the wrong question for heterosexual couples to be asking, because it usually comes from a place where you're trying to see how much you can get away with. Heterosexual couples aren't supposed to be doing anything that "ignites" ones "desire" before marriage. Sometimes you hear the Church talking about that, but mostly that only happens when they're talking to teenagers, and even then it's an unclear message. What people end up seeing is a Church that seems to hold homosexuals to a perfect ideal standard, but lets heterosexuals get away with flouting that standard because they'll probably get married eventually. And that makes it harder for people to accept the Church's teaching, because it makes it seem even more unfair.

Furthermore, the Church isn't against love. It just insists that sexual love is not the end-all, be-all of love. Often the Church encourages homosexuals to develop strong friendships with others, because companionship is important for humans (chaste friendships, of course). While trotting out outdated and untrue stereotypes about homosexual relationships isn't going to convince you or anyone to accept the Church's teaching, viewing it within the context of other teachings on sexual ethics will probably help you.

[BigJon16]

From the Catechism:

[quote]2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,[sup] [/sup]tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."[sup] [/sup]They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.[/quote]


I think it is also key to remember that although the Church is against Same-Sex unions and relationships, She is not against the individual struggling with Same-Sex Attraction.

[quote]


2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
[/quote]


And here's a great video, (I am surprised no one has posted this yet..)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXq4izbFgAM[/media]


Let us know if you need any clarifications of the Catechism references or anything said by Fr. Pontifex.

[Noel's angel]

Church teaching always boils down to one thing: trusting that what God has revealed in word and deed is true and good. God revealed his plan for our sexuality when he created us male and female and instructed us to be fruitful and multiply. So, in God's ACT, we see what he wants for us, and in His WORD, we see it too. Remember, it was not good for man to be alone, so God created woman. The Church's teaching on homosexuality is most definitely Scriptural: Gen 19:4-16, Rom 1:26, 1Cor 6:9 etc. I think it is beneficial to look back at the harmony that existed between man and woman, between humanity and God, and humanity and nature before sin entered into the world. That is the natural harmony of God's creation.

We all (at some stage in our lives, to some extent) desire things that we shouldn't. But desire is not love, and the confusion between the two is a major problem we face today. There will be those who will say 'Well, it's okay because God made them that way.' Okay, well God made me and I'm heterosexual and I might really desire someone else's husband, but I know it would be wrong of me to dwell on that desire, or to act upon it.

Homosexuals are not asked to do something that is more difficult than un-married heterosexuals. If I never get married, so be it - I will continue to strive to live in accordance with God's will, whatever it may be.

[Freedom]

[size=4]Sometimes we get a little confused with being all loving and trying to be non-judgemental. As if loving someone means to be all supportive of them as they live an openly sinful lifestyle. Yeah, “Love is patient,” “love is kind” and “bears all things,” and people like bringing up the fact that Christ ate with sinners, but somehow people take all this to mean that we need to accept people for who they are. The rest of the “Love is patient” verse goes, love “does not rejoice in iniquity.” And Christ went on to say, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.” [/size]Christ wasn’t hanging out with sinners for no reason, He still called them sinners and compared them to the sick that needed healing. Christ often said to the sinner, “Go and sin no more.”

[size=4]We aren’t supposed to like sin. We’re not supposed to like it when the people we love sin. We can’t support, condone or justify sin.[/size]

[size=4]Continue to love them as you should but you can't condone their actions. Pray for them, they need it. I think 1 Corinthians 13:4-6 is pretty hard to ignore.[/size]

[CatherineM]

Christ talked to the woman at the well, and the woman who was going to be stoned. He forgave them, but also wanted them to go forth and not sin again.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1350783987' post='2495526']
[size=4]Sometimes we get a little confused with being all loving and trying to be non-judgemental. As if loving someone means to be all supportive of them as they live an openly sinful lifestyle. Yeah, “Love is patient,” “love is kind” and “bears all things,” and people like bringing up the fact that Christ ate with sinners, but somehow people take all this to mean that we need to accept people for who they are. The rest of the “Love is patient” verse goes, love “does not rejoice in iniquity.” And Christ went on to say, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.” [/size]Christ wasn’t hanging out with sinners for no reason, He still called them sinners and compared them to the sick that needed healing. Christ often said to the sinner, “Go and sin no more.”

[size=4]We aren’t supposed to like sin. We’re not supposed to like it when the people we love sin. We can’t support, condone or justify sin.[/size]

[size=4]Continue to love them as you should but you can't condone their actions. Pray for them, they need it. I think 1 Corinthians 13:4-6 is pretty hard to ignore.[/size]
[/quote]

I'd prop this if I could.

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1350706660' post='2495239']
I suggest reading Sexual Authenticity: An Intimate Reflection on Homosexuality and Catholicism by Melinda Selmys.
[/quote]

This.