4588686 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1350681548' post='2495035'] So you'd actually prefer a further left Obama? Are you intending on picking up a gun to aid Dear Leader, or will you hide when it comes time to take down threats like me, who reject the ownership of human beings? [/quote] You don't reject the ownership of human beings. You're a capitalist. But no. There is a reason that Rosa Luxemburg and Emma Goldman spent much of their lives criticizing Lenin and Trotsky. I'm talking about the 'left' left. Which is a wonderful political tradition that was pretty well stomped out by the capitalists, fascists and the Stalinists. Of course, unlike Misses, Emma Goldman actually had the cajoles to criticize the soviet regime while living in the USSR (she was banished there by the US government). Misses was not banished out of the US. I guess he wasn't viewed as a threat. Not surprising given who bankrolled him. Edited October 19, 2012 by Hasan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1350681650' post='2495040'] By which you mean authoritarians, right? [/quote] Yeah. To an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1350681850' post='2495046'] You don't reject the ownership of human beings. You're a capitalist. But no. There is a reason that Rosa Luxemburg and Emma Goldman spent much of their lives criticizing Lenin and Trotsky. Of course, unlike Misses, Emma Goldman actually had the cajoles to criticize the soviet regime while living in the USSR (she was banished there by the US government). Misses was not banished out of the US. I guess he wasn't viewed as a threat. Not surprising given who bankrolled him. [/quote] Why would Mises be banned from the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Why would a guy named Misses be [i]allowed [/i]in the United States? Talk about making us look bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1350682400' post='2495055'] Why would a guy named Misses be [i]allowed [/i]in the United States? Talk about making us look bad... [/quote] Anti-Semite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1350682677' post='2495057'] Anti-Semite. [/quote] If he wanted to be respected he should have been a Machabeus or an Oskar Schindler like the rest of the cool Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1350682789' post='2495060'] If he wanted to be respected he should have been a Machabeus or an Oskar Schindler like the rest of the cool Jews. [/quote] vonMises is a pretty cool name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [img]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/487139_454645087907066_734156809_n.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1350672273' post='2494929'] No he doesn't. Obama was on the far left when he was younger but as a President Obama has absolutely and unarguably not been a representative of the far left. Not even close. [/quote] You're right, when he was mentored by a terrorist member of the Weather Underground, he was further to the Left than he currently is. As it is, between his wildly disparate social policies compared to his nearly schizophrenic view on international relations ("let's build coalitions" and "we need to repair our international image" vs. "Oh hey, it's Monday, let's drone strike a wedding in Pakistan"), I do have trouble placing this President. --- To expand on the drone portion of the President's international diplomatic strangeness...a few not so fun things I was looking at earlier while trying to make someone more pro-war than anyone on this board try to see that they aren't always good: [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/families-of-americans-killed-by-drones-to-file-suit/2012/07/18/gJQAhbJWtW_story.html"]WaPo: Families of three U.S. citizens sue Pentagon and President over assassination of their family members.[/url] Interestingly, despite the fact they were "terrorists", none had been directly involved in so much as firing a weapon at other Americans. In fact, their inflammatory rhetoric was similar to that, even in intensity, which one hears by Americans on U.S. soil. [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0"]NYT: Secret 'Kill List' Tests Obama's Principles, includes Americans.[/url] Or this, way to build relations with our "ally" Pakistan: [url="http://www.policymic.com/articles/15340/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-have-killed-thousands-of-civilians"]U.S. Drone strikes kill 1 suspected terrorist and 49 civilians per 50 deaths in Pakistan.[/url] Not that I'd be entirely sure of that estimate, since the New York Times reports (in that kill list article): [quote] It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts [b]all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants[/b], according to several administration officials, [b]unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent[/b].[/quote] Let's not even get into the legitimacy of "double tap" strikes, where we intentionally target people whose only crime is trying to render medical aid. And last, since I've gone on a tangent about how President Obama (yet again) expanded one of President Bush's pet programs: [url="http://livingunderdrones.org/report/"]http://livingunderdrones.org/report/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1350687001' post='2495122'] You're right, when he was mentored by a terrorist member of the Weather Underground, he was further to the Left than he currently is. As it is, between his wildly disparate social policies compared to his nearly schizophrenic view on international relations ("let's build coalitions" and "we need to repair our international image" vs. "Oh hey, it's Monday, let's drone strike a wedding in Pakistan"), I do have trouble placing this President. --- To expand on the drone portion of the President's international diplomatic strangeness...a few not so fun things I was looking at earlier while trying to make someone more pro-war than anyone on this board try to see that they aren't always good: [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/families-of-americans-killed-by-drones-to-file-suit/2012/07/18/gJQAhbJWtW_story.html"]WaPo: Families of three U.S. citizens sue Pentagon and President over assassination of their family members.[/url] Interestingly, despite the fact they were "terrorists", none had been directly involved in so much as firing a weapon at other Americans. In fact, their inflammatory rhetoric was similar to that, even in intensity, which one hears by Americans on U.S. soil. [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0"]NYT: Secret 'Kill List' Tests Obama's Principles, includes Americans.[/url] Or this, way to build relations with our "ally" Pakistan: [url="http://www.policymic.com/articles/15340/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-have-killed-thousands-of-civilians"]U.S. Drone strikes kill 1 suspected terrorist and 49 civilians per 50 deaths in Pakistan.[/url] Not that I'd be entirely sure of that estimate, since the New York Times reports (in that kill list article): Let's not even get into the legitimacy of "double tap" strikes, where we intentionally target people whose only crime is trying to render medical aid. And last, since I've gone on a tangent about how President Obama (yet again) expanded one of President Bush's pet programs: [url="http://livingunderdrones.org/report/"]http://livingunderdrones.org/report/[/url] [/quote] Dude, I kind of love you. No homo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 amesome post, BG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1350681439' post='2495029'] I'm using the term 'left' to describe the left. Che was on the left. That doesn't mean that most leftists would agree with every decision that Che made one he assumed power anymore than you agree with Misses accommodating opinions on fascism. But yes, Marxism is part of the far left. Obama is not. [/quote] [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1350681850' post='2495046'] You don't reject the ownership of human beings. You're a capitalist. But no. There is a reason that Rosa Luxemburg and Emma Goldman spent much of their lives criticizing Lenin and Trotsky. I'm talking about the 'left' left. Which is a wonderful political tradition that was pretty well stomped out by the capitalists, fascists and the Stalinists. Of course, unlike Misses, Emma Goldman actually had the cajoles to criticize the soviet regime while living in the USSR (she was banished there by the US government). Misses was not banished out of the US. I guess he wasn't viewed as a threat. Not surprising given who bankrolled him. [/quote] Che Guevera was a bloodthirsty sadistic butcher who helped his buddy Fidel come to power and set up his tyranny (though no doubt you think it a beautiful worker's paradise). Of course, that wonderful leftist political tradition is lovely when it is raging against the capitalist machine and butchering those awful capitalist pigs, but not so cool once the leftists are actually in power and throwing dissidents in gulags. Yes, I know all leftists (including Communists) claim their brutality is only a temporary necessity, and once they have their way, the state will wither away and all that jazz, but the reality is when in control, leftism always results in tyranny. . . . beaver dam, wish I had props to give Winnie in this thread . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1350682789' post='2495060'] If he wanted to be respected he should have been a Machabeus or an Oskar Schindler like the rest of the cool Jews. [/quote] Oskar Schindler wasn't Jewish, though he saved Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1350687151' post='2495125'] Dude, I kind of love you. No homo. [/quote] [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1350687505' post='2495131'] amesome post, BG! [/quote] Thanks, I realize it was pretty off topic, but no matter Obama's political leanings...after abortion, that is my biggest issue with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1350672036' post='2494925'] I already voted via absentee ballot, but like Sixpence said, I'm discouraged. Neither is a win for most Americans, most of whom are in the middle. Romney is currently the mouthpiece of the far Right, not believing what he says, and as a result is acting like the wooden puppet he is. Obama represents the far Left.. [/quote] Romney is nowhere close to the "far Right." (I say that as a proud card-carrying member of the Far-Right.) He was probably overall the most liberal of the major GOP candidates. You're probably one of those guys who thinks G.W. was a "conservative extremist." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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