How Can Men Be Like Mary?

[Katholikos]

How about a "who subscribes to everything the Magisterium teaches" thread?

I do, for one. Jason does, that's two.

Edited May 24, 2004 by Katholikos

[Theologian in Training]

DustyFro,

We imitate those we love, or spend a lot of time around. If we take Mary as our Mother then being in Her arms constantly offers us the opportunity to learn from her those things that are pleasing to Christ and draw us closer to Him. She is a model of humility and purity, and teaches us to have a similar predisposition. Also, sometimes our imitation becomes the very thing that helps us understand Christ all the more, for who was closer to Christ than His very own Mother, and who can show us how to act and carry ourselves in His presence better than His own Mother.

At the same time, we also learn a very important truth, the mission is not our own and when God calls and asks us to act, if we have been obedient students of the teaching of His Mother than we will know to reply as she did, "Be it done unto me according to Thy Word." In other words, She teaches us to be humble before our God and when praised for that obedience and humility to glorify God alone, for when She was greeted by Elizabeth rather than thanking her for realizing She was bearing the child of God, She immediately responded "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, my spirit rejoces in God my Savior." Not look at me, look what I have done, but look at me and see what God has done, for it all begins and ends with Him. She merely teaches us to be aware, obedient, and loving of that profound reality.

Just because I am a man, does not mean I cannot learn profound truths from a woman, if that were the case we would have no women doctors of the Church.

Hope that helps

God Bless

[Dusty Fro]

I just feel like Jesus gets left in the dust in Catholic world. In front of the alter is always a depiction of Christ DYING an agonizing death for the sake of mankind, but the thing the Catholic Church is associated with most is Mary and saints. And the Pope, don't forget him. It just seems a little bit of a backwards focus to me. Doesn't jive right with my belief-o-monitor.

I'll answer whoever's post when I go back and read it after this.

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 24 2004, 01:25 AM'] I just feel like Jesus gets left in the dust in Catholic world.  In front of the alter is always a depiction of Christ DYING an agonizing death for the sake of mankind, but the thing the Catholic Church is associated with most is Mary and saints.  And the Pope, don't forget him.  It just seems a little bit of a backwards focus to me.  Doesn't jive right with my belief-o-monitor.

I'll answer whoever's post when I go back and read it after this. [/quote]
tho it may seem like that from the outside, it is not so

think about when a couple gets married, they do not just focus on each other but through their family members, friends from childhood, and all their loved ones from both lives of each one. Our Heavenly Father is similar because when we encounter Jesus, we also encounter those He loves most highly (His Beloved Mother and Saints). He wishes us to recieve him fully in many ways, such as sacraments, etc. because through those He is also. thinking of this as two ppl getting married you are now a part of the other, never once loving "yours truly" any less but only stronger.

i know i can say i care so much about my best friend not only cuz i know her but because i knew her family, parents and siblings. the ties are stronger than any. as a friend, those ties only strengthened. when i see my friend, or think of her, a part of her i think of is those others that are a part of her as well. us catholics, when we come to know Jesus, loving all parts of the Heavenly family, never once loving Jesus any less, but rather stronger.

likewise our Heavenly Father, we strive to care and honor those Jesus wants us to be a part of. our focus and center of it all is Jesus, the Blessed Mother points, leads and guides us to Her Son, Jesus Christ. they magnify the Lord and lead us to Him in our faith.

God bless,
+JMJ+

[Dusty Fro]

Well since Jesus and Mary showed the same characteristics and actions like gentleness and charity, I see them as gender neutral characteristics. In our misogynist society, showing those things through a man, Jesus, is like projecting them onto a gender neutral figure. He is God, after all, and encompasses all humanity, despite the identification of Him as a Father, Son, etc. I don't find that hard to reconcile at all. I can identify well with Jesus. He was an radical outcast, scorned and hated for doing what he knew was right. He went out on a limb, defying authorities and mores to help those who others rejected. Yeah, I can identify with that.

I can identify with Mary, because as a woman I can realize the gravity of her decision and situation. I can understand the dilemma, because I can seriously consider the idea of carrying a child, something a man cannot do. A man couldn't completely understand the situation because the same standards aren't held to men. Joseph had the right to have Mary dragged out and stoned.

I guess I see Mary, despite being the one who raised Jesus, as just another of His followers. She wanted to be like Jesus herself, I'm sure, which I don't doubt she accomplished (minus the whole crucifixion thing) so shouldn't we look to the source? Isn't that what the great fathers of the Christian church said? (I'm not a great memorizer) Don't follow me, follow the one who sent me.

Telling men to be more like Mary doesn't...doesn't seem like the focus is on the first hand source. It's like, "Men, be like this woman" You think of her as a woman, and if I were a man, it would be much harder for me to identify with Mary than with Jesus.

I should probably say here that the place of Mary in the church and the politics of the Catholic Church government are what keeps me "protestant" so to speak, so I apologize for upsetting the fruit basket a bit. If you really want to convert me, you'll have to put up with my questions No, please don't intentionally try to convert me. God will do that on His own if He wants.

[littleflower+JMJ]

dusty fro, i can assure you no one is here to convert you, again that is God's job, not ours, He alone changes hearts.

we strive to present the teachings of the Holy Mother church and Truth accurately, praying that it will lead us all ever closer to Jesus.

+JMJ+

[Dusty Fro]

Ah, that bit was a little joke. I fear you not!

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 24 2004, 02:03 AM'] Ah, that bit was a little joke. I fear you not! [/quote]
its all good, just glad your here dusty!

[RandomProddy]

How can women be like Jesus?

[jasJis]

[quote name='RandomProddy' date='May 24 2004, 10:09 AM'] How can women be like Jesus? [/quote]
Very good point. Love and charity can be both Gender Specific and Gender Neutral.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 24 2004, 01:48 AM']
I should probably say here that the place of Mary in the church and the politics of the Catholic Church government are what keeps me "protestant" so to speak, so I apologize for upsetting the fruit basket a bit. If you really want to convert me, you'll have to put up with my questions No, please don't intentionally try to convert me. God will do that on His own if He wants. [/quote]
We don't want to convert you, as has been said by me and others many times. But we would like to change some of your mistaken concepts about the Catholic Church.

The Church is a-political. She has no politics. She operates a diplomatic service which has been very helpful in settling many, many disputes between countries, of every form of government and religious majority. It operates quietly and without fanfare or publicity. But she does not tell people what form of government they should have. She she takes "sides" on moral grounds alone. She is not against Democrats, but against abortion, for example.

When the Church interjects herself into political issues it is because the issues impact the Catholic Faith. Thus she speaks out on the issues of cloning, stem cell research, abortion, euthanasia, treatment of the very young and elderly, modern forms of slavery, and so forth. She is neither Republican nor Democrat, neither Whig nor Tory, neither pro- or con- monarchies, neither pro- nor anti-tribal. The Church does not favor one form of government over another. She does not favor democracy over oligarchy, for example, or any other form of government. She is interested in what happens to people as a result of government, but she does not engage in trying to influence who governs what country and the form of government engaged in.

I commend you for being open to learning the truth about how Mary is viewed by the Catholic Church.

Ave Cor Mariae, Jay

[Ellenita]

Likos,

Your post should be pinned during election year!

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Katholikos' date='May 25 2004, 01:43 AM'] , neither Whig nor Tory, [/quote]
lol

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 24 2004, 01:25 AM'] I just feel like Jesus gets left in the dust in Catholic world. In front of the alter is always a depiction of Christ DYING an agonizing death for the sake of mankind, but the thing the Catholic Church is associated with most is Mary and saints. And the Pope, don't forget him. It just seems a little bit of a backwards focus to me. Doesn't jive right with my belief-o-monitor.

I'll answer whoever's post when I go back and read it after this. [/quote]
The Mass is the central act of worship in the Catholic Church. It is a re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary. The Sacrifice occurred outside time, and is not repeated but made present to us again whenever the Divine Liturgy is celebrated. When we kneel at the Mass, we are kneeling at the foot of Calvary. All attention is focused on Our Savior and His Sacrifice. The Eucharist is Jesus Himself -- His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity -- offered to the Father and then given to us as real food for the journey through life. We've much to teach you, and it can't be done overnight. Stay with us. You'll see poco-a-poco (little by little) how Christ-centered our religion is.

I have fixed my eyes on your hills, Jerusalem, my destiny.
Tho' I cannot see the end for me, I cannot turn away.
We have set our hearts for the way;
This journey is our destiny.
Let no one walk alone.
The journey makes us one.
(song by Rory Cooney)

JMJ Jay (Likos)

[Dusty Fro]

Ah, I think I just said up there how women can imitate Jesus pretty well.

I thought this belonged here too: How can people specifically imitate Mary anyways? The Bible, at least the 66 book one I read, has very little about her life and actions. That's not enough for ME to say I want to imitate her. Now if there's more specific stuff in Catholic literature about her, I might see where you're coming from.