Joe Biden's Religion: Catholicism Or Leftism?

[cmotherofpirl]

Jewish World Review Nov. 15, 2012 / 30 Tishrei, 5773


[size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Helvetica]In the vice presidential debate, the two candidates, both Roman Catholics, were asked about their religious beliefs, how they impact the candidates' political positions and specifically about abortion. This was the response of Vice President Joe Biden:[/font][/font][/color]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"My religion defines who I am. And I've been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And it has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who — who can't take care of themselves, people who need help.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"With regard to abortion, I accept my church's position on abortion as a — what we call de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception. That's the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews and — I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that women, they can't control their body. It's a decision between them and their doctor, in my view. And the Supreme Court — I'm not going to interfere with that."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Let's analyze this response.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]1. "My religion defines who I am."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]If a conservative, evangelical Christian candidate for national office said that he defined himself by his religious beliefs, liberals would be screaming that the wall between church and state was in danger of being taken down.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Here is the rule in American politics: When the left uses religion to promote liberal policies, it is a beautiful thing. When the right uses religion to promote conservative policies, it threatens the separation of church and state and may lead to the creation of a theocracy.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]2. "It has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, people who need help."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]This illustrates my previous point. Biden's Catholicism leads him to promote liberal social policies, specifically an ever-expanding state to take care of "people who need help." What else could his statement mean? After all, what religion doesn't expect its adherents to take "care of those who can't take care of themselves"? Protestant Christianity? Judaism? Islam? Buddhism? Mitt Romney's Mormonism?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Since all religions do, what is the difference between Romney's religious call to help the less fortunate and Biden's religious call to help these people?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]The difference, as seen in the enormous difference between Biden's charitable donations and Romney's, is the difference between conservatism and liberalism: Conservatism holds that we all have to take care of ourselves and our fellow citizens; liberalism holds that the state — funded by some of us — has to.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]3. "I accept my church's position on abortion ... I just refuse to impose that on others."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]This sounds beautiful to liberals. But it is as un-thought-through as it is un-Catholic.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Why is Mr. Biden completely comfortable with policies that "impose on others" what he understands as Catholic "social doctrine"? He will use the government to forcefully take people's money away and impose whatever policies he thinks Catholic social doctrine favors. Why, then, will he not impose on others his church's definition of the worth of human life from conception?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]There are three possible answers. One is that he doesn't really believe in his church's position on abortion. A second is that he does believe in it but would have to leave the Democratic Party if he tried to implement that policy. The third is that he believes that the Church's views on abortion only pertain to Catholics — and even then, only on a "personal" basis.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]If we are to take him at his word, that latter is what he believes: that his church's view on abortion only applies to him personally: "Life begins at conception. That's the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life." But if that is his opinion, his religiosity is not morally meaningful. If an act is moral or immoral only for him, then it is not moral or immoral. Either something is immoral for everyone (in the same circumstance) or it is not immoral.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Which is why the Church's teaching is that abortion is morally wrong for everyone, just as neglecting the needy is morally wrong for everyone.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]But Joe Biden would never say that the Catholic Church's social doctrine is only valid "in my personal life." So, what does Joe Biden, the Catholic, believe about abortion?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]These statements by the vice-president of the United States provide one more example of the fact that leftism — not Christianity, not Catholicism, and not Islam — has been the most influential religion in the world for the last century.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Only when Catholicism agrees with leftism is Joe Biden prepared to impose it. When his Catholicism does not agree with leftism, it is reduced to being a matter of personal matter of faith, no more binding on non-Catholics than receiving the Eucharist.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]And in this regard he is no different from many Jews and Protestant Christians. Their religious expression may be Judaism or Christianity, but their religion, like Biden's, is leftism. Which is why liberal Jews and liberal Christians have much more in common than liberal Jews have with conservative Jews or liberal Christians have with conservative Christians. They share what they deem truly important — leftism.[/font][/color][/font][/size]

[CatherineM]

It reminds me of Liberation Theology, and why it can be dangerous.

[PhuturePriest]

I wish a Bishop would go ahead and threaten to no longer serve him Communion already. According to canon law they are supposed to, but canon law is being treated like the pirate code and it is seen more as a guideline than an official rulebook.

[GregorMendel]

Here is the full transcript of Vice President Biden's answer to the question of how their faith informed their views of abortion.

[quote][color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]My religion defines who I am, and I've been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And has particularly informed my social doctrine. The Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who -- who can't take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to -- with regard to abortion, I accept my church's position on abortion as a -- what we call a (inaudible) doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the -- the congressman. I -- I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that -- women they can't control their body. It's a decision between them and their doctor. In my view and the Supreme Court, I'm not going to interfere with that. With regard to the assault on the Catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear, no religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy Hospital, any hospital, none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]That is a fact. Now with regard to the way in which the -- we differ, my friend says that he -- well I guess he accepts Governor Romney's position now, because in the past he has argued that there was -- there's rape and forcible rape. He's argued that in the case of rape or incest, it was still -- it would be a crime to engage in having an abortion. I just fundamentally disagree with my friend.[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

And here is Congressman Paul Ryan's answer:

[quote][color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]I don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us in everything we do. My faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, of how to make sure that people have a chance in life.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]Now, you want to ask basically why I'm pro-life? It's not simply because of my Catholic faith. That's a factor, of course. But it's also because of reason and science.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]You know, I think about 10 1/2 years ago, my wife Janna and I went to Mercy Hospital in Janesville where I was born, for our seven week ultrasound for our firstborn child, and we saw that heartbeat. A little baby was in the shape of a bean. And to this day, we have nicknamed our firstborn child Liza, "Bean." Now I believe that life begins at conception.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]That's why -- those are the reasons why I'm pro-life. Now I understand this is a difficult issue, and I respect people who don't agree with me on this, but the policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortions with the exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif][size=4]Our church should not have to sue our federal government to maintain their religious liberties. And with respect to abortion, the Democratic Party used to say they wanted it to be safe, legal and rare. Now they support it without restriction and with taxpayer funding. Taxpayer funding in Obamacare, taxpayer funding with foreign aid. The vice president himself went to China and said that he sympathized and wouldn't second guess their one child policy of forced abortions and sterilizations. That to me is pretty extreme.[/size][/font][/color][/quote]


"[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif]The Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who -- who can't take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to -- with regard to abortion, I accept my church's position on abortion as a -- what we call a (inaudible) doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life."[/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif]"Our faith informs us in everything we do. My faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, of how to make sure that people have a chance in life."[/font][/color]


Yep, this article is absolutely right, because when I read these statements, I dont see two catholics who have different interpretations of catholic social teaching and respectable political positions, I see the eternal battle between conservative and liberal at war for the fate of humanity and the soul of America.

Ridiculous.

Vice President Biden's 'leftism' is not his identity, nor is it his 'religion'; to say so offends Congressman Ryan's faith as well, for he wouldn't agree that his identity or 'religion' is 'conservatism'. It should also offend all politically active religious peoples who believe that, while one's religion and politics may inform each other, it is possible to remain united in faith with one's religious community, no matter how diverse in opinion it may be.


[quote][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]And in this regard he is no different from many Jews and Protestant Christians. Their religious expression may be Judaism or Christianity, but their religion, like Biden's, is leftism. Which is why liberal Jews and liberal Christians have much more in common than liberal Jews have with conservative Jews or liberal Christians have with conservative Christians. They share what they deem truly important — leftism.[/font][/color][/quote]


To assert that liberals of different faiths have more in common than their conservative counterparts is tantamount to asserting that liberal catholics and conservative catholics couldn't possibly share the same faith. I find this to be a ridiculous assessment and quite offensive at that.

Edited October 16, 2012 by GregorMendel

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1350396054' post='2493936']
Jewish World Review Nov. 15, 2012 / 30 Tishrei, 5773


[size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica][font=Arial, Helvetica]In the vice presidential debate, the two candidates, both Roman Catholics, were asked about their religious beliefs, how they impact the candidates' political positions and specifically about abortion. This was the response of Vice President Joe Biden:[/font][/font][/color]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"My religion defines who I am. And I've been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And it has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who — who can't take care of themselves, people who need help.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"With regard to abortion, I accept my church's position on abortion as a — what we call de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception. That's the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews and — I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]"I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that women, they can't control their body. It's a decision between them and their doctor, in my view. And the Supreme Court — I'm not going to interfere with that."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Let's analyze this response.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]1. "My religion defines who I am."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]If a conservative, evangelical Christian candidate for national office said that he defined himself by his religious beliefs, liberals would be screaming that the wall between church and state was in danger of being taken down.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Here is the rule in American politics: When the left uses religion to promote liberal policies, it is a beautiful thing. When the right uses religion to promote conservative policies, it threatens the separation of church and state and may lead to the creation of a theocracy.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]2. "It has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, people who need help."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]This illustrates my previous point. Biden's Catholicism leads him to promote liberal social policies, specifically an ever-expanding state to take care of "people who need help." What else could his statement mean? After all, what religion doesn't expect its adherents to take "care of those who can't take care of themselves"? Protestant Christianity? Judaism? Islam? Buddhism? Mitt Romney's Mormonism?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Since all religions do, what is the difference between Romney's religious call to help the less fortunate and Biden's religious call to help these people?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]The difference, as seen in the enormous difference between Biden's charitable donations and Romney's, is the difference between conservatism and liberalism: Conservatism holds that we all have to take care of ourselves and our fellow citizens; liberalism holds that the state — funded by some of us — has to.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]3. "I accept my church's position on abortion ... I just refuse to impose that on others."[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]This sounds beautiful to liberals. But it is as un-thought-through as it is un-Catholic.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Why is Mr. Biden completely comfortable with policies that "impose on others" what he understands as Catholic "social doctrine"? He will use the government to forcefully take people's money away and impose whatever policies he thinks Catholic social doctrine favors. Why, then, will he not impose on others his church's definition of the worth of human life from conception?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]There are three possible answers. One is that he doesn't really believe in his church's position on abortion. A second is that he does believe in it but would have to leave the Democratic Party if he tried to implement that policy. The third is that he believes that the Church's views on abortion only pertain to Catholics — and even then, only on a "personal" basis.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]If we are to take him at his word, that latter is what he believes: that his church's view on abortion only applies to him personally: "Life begins at conception. That's the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life." But if that is his opinion, his religiosity is not morally meaningful. If an act is moral or immoral only for him, then it is not moral or immoral. Either something is immoral for everyone (in the same circumstance) or it is not immoral.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Which is why the Church's teaching is that abortion is morally wrong for everyone, just as neglecting the needy is morally wrong for everyone.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]But Joe Biden would never say that the Catholic Church's social doctrine is only valid "in my personal life." So, what does Joe Biden, the Catholic, believe about abortion?[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]These statements by the vice-president of the United States provide one more example of the fact that leftism — not Christianity, not Catholicism, and not Islam — has been the most influential religion in the world for the last century.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]Only when Catholicism agrees with leftism is Joe Biden prepared to impose it. When his Catholicism does not agree with leftism, it is reduced to being a matter of personal matter of faith, no more binding on non-Catholics than receiving the Eucharist.[/font][/color][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica]And in this regard he is no different from many Jews and Protestant Christians. Their religious expression may be Judaism or Christianity, but their religion, like Biden's, is leftism. Which is why liberal Jews and liberal Christians have much more in common than liberal Jews have with conservative Jews or liberal Christians have with conservative Christians. They share what they deem truly important — leftism.[/font][/color][/font][/size]
[/quote]


Joe Biden is not a leftist. He is a Democrat. The fact that some people seriously think that the Democratic is a 'leftist' party shows just how sad and anemic our political discourse is and how unaware most people are about how very narrow the range of that discourse is.


So no, leftism is not Biden's religion.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Hasan

[ToJesusMyHeart]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1350410101' post='2493984']
So no, leftism is not Biden's religion.
[/quote]

And neither is Catholicism, apparently.

[kujo]

Guys, guys. President Obama and Vice President Biden want to kill innocent little precious babies . That's really what this election is about, right?

Edited October 16, 2012 by kujo

[Anomaly]

[quote name='GregorMendel' timestamp='1350404044' post='2493957']
Here is the full transcript of Vice President Biden's answer to the question of how their faith informed their views of abortion.



And here is Congressman Paul Ryan's answer:




"[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif]The Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who -- who can't take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to -- with regard to abortion, I accept my church's position on abortion as a -- what we call a (inaudible) doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life."[/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=georgia, 'times new roman', serif]"Our faith informs us in everything we do. My faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, of how to make sure that people have a chance in life."[/font][/color]


Yep, this article is absolutely right, because when I read these statements, I dont see two catholics who have different interpretations of catholic social teaching and respectable political positions, I see the eternal battle between conservative and liberal at war for the fate of humanity and the soul of America.

Ridiculous.

Vice President Biden's 'leftism' is not his identity, nor is it his 'religion'; to say so offends Congressman Ryan's faith as well, for he wouldn't agree that his identity or 'religion' is 'conservatism'. It should also offend all politically active religious peoples who believe that, while one's religion and politics may inform each other, it is possible to remain united in faith with one's religious community, no matter how diverse in opinion it may be.





To assert that liberals of different faiths have more in common than their conservative counterparts is tantamount to asserting that liberal catholics and conservative catholics couldn't possibly share the same faith. I find this to be a ridiculous assessment and quite offensive at that.
[/quote]
You missed the distinct differences between the two candidates, though both evaded a fundamental point.

Both don't agree on 'personhood' and when it a person is defended by Government. Catholic Theology teaches that personhood begins at conception. All Catholics should agree on defending a person, regardless of their stage of development, from zygote to geriatric. If you can't agree on a starting and ending point for 'personhood', then provide defined limits. Is it "after exiting the womb"? Is it when viable if outside the womb? Is it able to be productive? Is it determined by mental or physical attributes?

The murky area is whether or not the woman willing consented to sexual intercourse that may result in the beginning of another person. That's the debate that involves rape or incest. The second contestable point is if the fetus threatens the life of the mother. Keep in mind, the new person didn't ask to be created, but once in existence, it has the same right to life as any other being. In womb persons have as much a right to life as every other person.

Government should not be in the business of classifying persons as being subject to others determining they are allowed to live or not UNLESS that person causes harm to others WITH INTENT to harm.

The general and sterotypical difference between liberals and conservatives (right and left) is the role of the Government to arbitrarily define and then limit who can be protected and who can be disposed of based solely on majority vote.

One doesn't have to be Catholic, or even religious to acknowledge natural law and use reason to develop a framework of understanding. That isn't a majority vote. How to apply this understanding in practical terms and make it work in society is where the majority opinion matters. For example, we know that Race identifies physical differences in people, but doesn't make any race less of human being. That would be acknowledged and defended by Civil Society. How we specifically address and protect harm done to groups and individuals is where opinion comes in.

Biden seems to leave the fundamental issue of indentifying and protecting persons up to the State, regardless of the Fundamental Principles taught by Catholicism. Biden sees no reason to provide protection to people unless it is defined by majority opinion, enforced by Government. Ryan acknowledges the fundamental principle of personhood at conception, and is making pragrmatic decisions based on the laws and practices already in place that have wrongly identified the life of infants subject to the desires of people with more power. He is at least willing to promote the protection of persons unless they threaten real harm (as opposed to inconvenience) to others.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Anomaly

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1350412375' post='2494004']
Guys, guys. President Obama and Vice President Biden want to kill innocent little precious babies . That's really what this election is about, right?
[/quote]


ALL elections are about this. No other right matters to a dead person. Right to Life first, all else after that.


Biden is a Cafeteria Catholic

[ToJesusMyHeart]

The [url="http://www.diocs.org/default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1"]Catholic Diocese of Colorado Springs[/url] has thrown down the guantlet to Vice President [url="http://www.examiner.com/topic/joe-biden"]Joe Biden[/url] -- don't come here and expect to partake in [url="http://www.examiner.com/topic/holy-communion/articles"]Holy Communion[/url].

[url="http://www.examiner.com/article/bishop-to-biden-don-t-take-communion-colorado-springs"]http://www.examiner....olorado-springs[/url]

Edited October 16, 2012 by ToJesusMyHeart

[Socrates]

[quote name='GregorMendel' timestamp='1350404044' post='2493957']
. . .

Vice President Biden's 'leftism' is not his identity, nor is it his 'religion'; to say so offends Congressman Ryan's faith as well, for he wouldn't agree that his identity or 'religion' is 'conservatism'. It should also offend all politically active religious peoples who believe that, while one's religion and politics may inform each other, it is possible to remain united in faith with one's religious community, no matter how diverse in opinion it may be.
[/quote]
Supporting abortion (the murder of an innocent child) is blatantly contrary to the Catholic Faith. End of story.

The position of Biden and his party regarding abortion is absolutely [b]not[/b] a legitimate Catholic opinion.

[kujo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1350423274' post='2494063']


ALL elections are about this. No other right matters to a dead person. Right to Life first, all else after that.


Biden is a Cafeteria Catholic
[/quote]

I'd be willing to bet that there's an awful lot of Cafeteria Catholics on Phatmass. In fact, I'd wager that a lot of them rock Church militant tags.

[Nihil Obstat]

Remember that time I got suspended for calling you a heretic? And then you got that phishy tag? Good times, good times.

[img]http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/e/e2/S4_E21_High_Five!.PNG[/img]

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1350533646' post='2494324']
I'd be willing to bet that there's an awful lot of Cafeteria Catholics on Phatmass. In fact, I'd wager that a lot of them rock Church militant tags.
[/quote]

i would take that bet...and win


edit; dumb fiddler ruined a perfectly good faux insult

booger head!

Edited October 19, 2012 by Groo the Wanderer

[Winchester]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1350430130' post='2494090']
Supporting abortion (the murder of an innocent child) is blatantly contrary to the Catholic Faith. End of story.

The position of Biden and his party regarding abortion is absolutely [b]not[/b] a legitimate Catholic opinion.
[/quote]
Correctamundo.