50th Anniversary Of Vii

[ToJesusMyHeart]

This will probably cause controversy.

I just want to get people's opinions on this video by ChurchMilitant.tv

http://youtu.be/O9nncmeWrP4

[Nihil Obstat]

If it is Michael Voris, it is often safe to say that I agree with what he says with some generally minor reservations, and that I am sometimes but certainly not always not entirely keen on his presentation. And also that he should hire a better stylist because I think it would add enormously to his presentation. But I do not have time to watch the video.

[Papist]

I am NO friend to modernism. But through experience, I don't trust Voris to be fair and charitable. He seems to enjoy what he is doing, which is telling people sad going-ons within the Church.

[ThePenciledOne]

Never seen Voris before now....not impressed. Otherwise, disagree with him on a number of points and this attitude that he has does little to bring back unity for Catholics to be brought back. This sorta stuff is annoying/saddening.

[the171]

Yes, a change did happen after the council. No, it was not the intent of the council for this MAJOR change to take place. And yes, something did happen in the wake of the council to cause this great change: The Sexual "Revolution".

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1350071731' post='2492861']
Yes, a change did happen after the council. No, it was not the intent of the council for this MAJOR change to take place. And yes, something did happen in the wake of the council to cause this great change: The Sexual "Revolution".
[/quote]
I believe it is fair to say that it in fact was the intention of at least a significant minority of council fathers to force major change upon the Church.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1350072178' post='2492864']
I believe it is fair to say that it in fact was the intention of at least a significant minority of council fathers to force major change upon the Church.
[/quote]

And yet so many in the Church decide that these holy men were wrong with what they concluded or where the Spirit decided to lead them.

Given I will not deny implementation was not the best, but it's not as if the Church has not gone through rough periods and tranquil periods. Life in the temporal has that quality.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1350145312' post='2493083']

And yet so many in the Church decide that these holy men were wrong with what they concluded or where the Spirit decided to lead them.

Given I will not deny implementation was not the best, but it's not as if the Church has not gone through rough periods and tranquil periods. Life in the temporal has that quality.
[/quote]

Well it is undeniable that the modernizing influence was felt, and felt strongly. The trouble is that their influence allowed them to insert elements into some of the documents that were intentionally vague enough to allow their modernizing interpretation, even as the first interpretation.
So in sorting out and isolating that modernizing influence, we have to go as far as the documents themselves and see what marks they left behind.

[Egidio]

I think Mr Voris, and all catholics need to read the Homily of our Holy Father on the opening of the year of Faith. Below is a snippet:


[size=5][i]In the light of these words, we can understand what I myself felt at the time: during the Council there was an emotional tension as we faced the common task of making the truth and beauty of the faith shine out in our time, without sacrificing it to the demands of the present or leaving it tied to the past: the eternal presence of God resounds in the faith, transcending time, yet it can only be welcomed by us in our own unrepeatable today. Therefore I believe that the most important thing, especially on such a significant occasion as this, is to revive in the whole Church that positive tension, that yearning to announce Christ again to contemporary man. But, so that this interior thrust towards the new evangelization neither remain just an idea nor be lost in confusion, it needs to be built on a concrete and precise basis, and this basis is the documents of the [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/"]Second Vatican Council[/url], the place where it found expression. This is why I have often insisted on the need to return, as it were, to the “letter” of the Council – that is to its texts – also to draw from them its authentic spirit, and why I have repeated that the true legacy of Vatican II is to be found in them. Reference to the documents saves us from extremes of anachronistic nostalgia and running too far ahead, and allows what is new to be welcomed in a context of continuity. The Council did not formulate anything new in matters of faith, nor did it wish to replace what was ancient. Rather, it concerned itself with seeing that the same faith might continue to be lived in the present day, that it might remain a living faith in a world of change. [/i][/size]
[size=5][i]If we place ourselves in harmony with the authentic approach which Blessed [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_xxiii/index.htm"]John XXIII[/url] wished to give to Vatican II, we will be able to realize it during this [url="http://www.vatican.va/special/annus_fidei/index_en.htm"]Year of Faith[/url], following the same path of the Church as she continuously endeavours to deepen the deposit of faith entrusted to her by Christ. The Council Fathers wished to present the faith in a meaningful way; and if they opened themselves trustingly to dialogue with the modern world it is because they were certain of their faith, of the solid rock on which they stood. In the years following, however, many embraced uncritically the dominant mentality, placing in doubt the very foundations of the deposit of faith, which they sadly no longer felt able to accept as truths. [/i][/size]

The rest can be found here: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2012/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20121011_anno-fede_en.html

[color=#000080][size=5][font=comic sans ms,cursive]AVE MARIA!![/font][/size][/color]

[LouisvilleFan]

I'm not sure what to make of the Vortex either. I agree with a lot of his points, but he needs to learn a few things about reaching an online audience. Hint: nobody goes to YouTube for lectures. I skipped through to catch a few segments... obviously he's not big on this Bishop Anthony Taylor guy, whoever that is. Strikes me as a very long Colbert "Word" segment, without the humor and style

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1350182431' post='2493210']
I'm not sure what to make of the Vortex either. I agree with a lot of his points, but he needs to learn a few things about reaching an online audience. Hint: nobody goes to YouTube for lectures. I skipped through to catch a few segments... obviously he's not big on this Bishop Anthony Taylor guy, whoever that is. Strikes me as a very long Colbert "Word" segment, without the humor and style
[/quote]

Apparently I'm "nobody", because I watch his videos just about every day. Also, he is world famous and very successful. He does talks in every continent every year, and is praised by many. His style is not popular with everyone, but it is popular. Some people don't like it and that's fine; their personality doesn't agree with his. But many personalities do agree with his as is evident by the fact that he is extremely successful.

Edited October 14, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[Nihil Obstat]

If nobody was listening, he would not be doing what he is doing. He fills a need, and a lot of people are not even sure what that need is.

[ACS67]

Voris is simply "razing the bastions" of modernism, liberalism, and progressivism in the Church. It takes bombast to do this because these "bastions" are very strong. Many of you may be too young to know just how long this nonsense has been going on. Many of us who are Voris' age (40's) are sick of waiting for these moderns/progressives/liberals to die and take their heresy with them to the grave (and beyond!) It seems this is the only way we will be rid of them.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1350237362' post='2493314']
Voris is simply "razing the bastions" of modernism, liberalism, and progressivism in the Church. It takes bombast to do this because these "bastions" are very strong. Many of you may be too young to know just how long this nonsense has been going on. Many of us who are Voris' age (40's) are sick of waiting for these moderns/progressives/liberals to die and take their heresy with them to the grave (and beyond!) It seems this is the only way we will be rid of them.
[/quote]

*facepalm*

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1350186551' post='2493216']
Apparently I'm "nobody", because I watch his videos just about every day. Also, he is world famous and very successful. He does talks in every continent every year, and is praised by many. His style is not popular with everyone, but it is popular. Some people don't like it and that's fine; their personality doesn't agree with his. But many personalities do agree with his as is evident by the fact that he is extremely successful.
[/quote]

Clearly my use of the term "nobody" was hyperbole. My point is the general audience (i.e. the world we're supposed to evangelize) isn't going to YouTube for 15 minute lectures. Fr. Pontifex is doing an amesome job at reaching a lot of people on YouTube who are definitely not going there for Catholic theology. And I won't dispute The Vortex Man is doing more than I am to reach people. It's just that when I watch him I can't help thinking about the obvious changes to his format that would likely help him reach a much larger audience.