The Vice President Debate

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1350063531' post='2492813']
We you not claiming about a month ago that libertarianism is heretical?
[/quote]

That wasn't some crazy thing I just concluded, that is what I was told.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1350064057' post='2492821']
Do you or do you not fall short of the glory and perfection of Jesus Christ? I thought sinfulness was sort of a zero-sum sort of deal; you are either a sinner, or you're Jesus. So, unless I am mistaken, you, me and Joe Biden are all in the same boat. That was my point.

Oh, and 4 people can't be a Trinity--it would be a Square.
[/quote]

Don't forget the possibility of him secretly being a woman. He could also be Mary. Don't throw out the secret woman card yet until we further investigate.

[kujo]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1350064203' post='2492824']

Don't forget the possibility of him secretly being a woman. He could also be Mary. Don't throw out the secret woman card yet until we further investigate.
[/quote]

I'll leave that task to you, princess.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1350064263' post='2492825']

I'll leave that task to you, princess.
[/quote]

Thank you, my liege. *Curtsy*

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1350064057' post='2492821']
Oh I didn't know we were being cynical.

You want your senator or congressman gone? Get 50% + 1% of your fellow city/state/countrymen together and vote them out. That's the way it works.
[/quote]
They let you shuffle the faces once in a while, but they do not let you effect fundamental change.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1350066161' post='2492836']
They let you shuffle the faces once in a while, but they do not let you effect fundamental change.
[/quote]
Yes the system does.

The majority of what politicians decide and do are what they get away with because citizins/voters don't pay attention, are getting what they want, don't want to be bothered, are comfortable with the machine running the way it is, etc.

It takes more effort and time then most people are willing to invest.

[Nihil Obstat]

Do you actually think that politicians are going to let you use their own game to take away their power? The political system exists for the sole purpose of gaining and maintaining power over the people. They get to change the rules. Of course they are not going to let you turn their own racket against them.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1350075495' post='2492878']
Yes the system does.

The majority of what politicians decide and do are what they get away with because citizins/voters don't pay attention, are getting what they want, don't want to be bothered, are comfortable with the machine running the way it is, etc.

It takes more effort and time then most people are willing to invest.
[/quote]
Yeah, it's not like a farmer in 1942 went all the way to the supreme court, only to be told that his wheat was, in fact, the property of the Federal government.

When they really want to do something, they do it.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1350076039' post='2492879']
Do you actually think that politicians are going to let you use their own game to take away their power? The political system exists for the sole purpose of gaining and maintaining power over the people. They get to change the rules. Of course they are not going to let you turn their own racket against them.
[/quote]
That's putting too much of a conspiracy on it, I think. Of course you're right that power has a life of its own. But the real problem is more fundamental. Our democratic idea is good, but it's too bound up in nationalist ideology. I don't buy that "every vote counts" except in a mathematical sense. Real political power is not individual votes, but the ability to harness and mobilize all these individual votes. That's what drives our political system. It's about empowering groups, not people and communities. Our myth of the power of each vote is just that, a myth that is necessary for the system to work. But our "politics" is about doing what you can for the group, not for your day to day life (hence the central role of parties).

I cringe when I hear President Obama say, as he did at the first debate, "[color=#000000][font=arial]The first role of the federal government is to keep the American people safe." That's what politics is about, fear and preservation of the American nation. People are willing to give everything over to parties and the military, so long as they "keep the American people safe." The only way to really change things is 1) Actually empower people and communities, and 2) Be willing to accept the consequences of their political freedom. I don't believe the preservation of the American nation or our political system is an absolute good...if we're not willing to risk letting everything fall apart, then we will never be really free, because we will always give a blank check to the authorities to impose their central power.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=arial]That's the real problem as I see it. The American Right will chuck aside everything except the military. The Left will chuck aside everything except its incarnation of progress (incarnate in the ideological party).[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=arial]To really be free we need to start really decentralizing authority, not just between states and politicians and parties, but empowering actual communities. Nothing exemplifies our lack of freedom, to me, more than our justice system. We put people in cages for completely arbitrary amounts of time to satisfy some abstract "justice." We'd get more "justice" and perhaps more mercy if we would seek more communal forms of justice. But that, too, won't happen because we believe, as President Obama said, that the government's first duty is to keep us safe, and so long as we feel safe, we don't care that about massive prison walls and foreign wars and a stupefying media.[/font][/color]

Edited October 12, 2012 by Era Might

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1349989672' post='2492407']
I don't know what parental rights you are talking about but in Texas it is perfectly legal for minors to drink under parental supervision.
[/quote]

Georgia, too, as long as they are in their own home.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1350078363' post='2492888']
That's putting too much of a conspiracy on it, I think.
[/quote]
I do not think it has to be too conspiratorial. More like a general observation about the nature of the system.

I basically agree with the rest of what you said.

[Papist]

Ryan was meh. Biden was condescending jerk.

[Freedom]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1349983482' post='2492365']

Only in the U.S. Nobody stops to think about Belgium, Ireland and New Zealand, where I am well within the legal drinking age.
[/quote]

Back in the day when I had to walk miles to get to school in the snow haha just kidding! It was a little while ago, I actually got carded in Australia when I was old enough to drink in the U.S.! Can't be upset when God's given me the grace to look years younger than I am!

[Freedom]

During the VP debates, VP Biden kept smiling, laughing, interrupting and was a complete bully towards Ryan & was very unprofessional!

Proverbs 29:9
If a wise person disputes with a fool, there is a railing & ridicule but no resolution.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Freedom' timestamp='1350081869' post='2492909']
During the VP debates, VP Biden kept smiling, laughing, interrupting and was a complete bully towards Ryan & was very unprofessional!

Proverbs 29:9
If a wise person disputes with a fool, there is a railing & ridicule but no resolution.
[/quote]
But that does not tell us what happens when two fools debate.