Day Of The Girl

[Papist]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1350050992' post='2492755']

Are you kidding me?

[b]You are literally saying that it is better for a woman to take pride in how she displays her body than her other achievements or accomplishments.[/b] That not only should we not challenge society when it dictates the worth of a woman based on a standard of desirability, but that we, as Catholic Christians, should embrace this standard and promote it to our children.

Our inherent value as human beings comes from God. But what gives you value in your life? Meditating on the idea that your worth comes from God? Or pursuing what ever God's call is in your life, and making the best use of the talents that He has given you? Maybe a combination of the two?

When we tell girls that it is better to take pride in their accomplishments than how they look, we tell them that it is better to take pride in using well the talents God has given them instead of whatever society's arbitrary standard of beauty is. Women do not become saints by looking pretty. They become saints by using their talents, cultivating their virtues, and doing things that contribute to the building up of the Kingdom.

NB: Now, that's not to say that something like Pure Fashion isn't good, because we desperately need to fight against sexualization of girls and promote modesty in fashion. But women also have great value even if they don't look pretty.
[/quote]
No. That is not what I am saying. It does not have to be either/or. There is nothing inherently wrong with a girl wanting to be physically beautiful. It is our culture requiring that she want and be physically beautiful, and dictating those requirements is what the problem is. There is nothing inherently wrong with a girl wanting to achieve good grades and accomplish sports success. It is these "you go girl" movements requiring that she want and do achieve good grades and accomplish sports success, and dictating those requirements(which usually a traditional "boy" thing) that I believe is problematic. A girl's worth/value is not how she stacks up against boys.

And you are spot on in regard to our #1 concern is our value in God's eye. We should do not be afraid to not let others control who we are, and more so who we should be. We need to remember that our worth lies in how God sees us, not how others see us, or even in how we sometimes see ourselves. Razzle dazzle in God’s eyes is the best razzle dazzle there is.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1350051605' post='2492756']
Men and women are equal.

But think about your reaction here. This movement is about promoting education for girls, and makes no mention of promoting men. And yet because it doesn't talk about men, you see it as a threat, as discrimination. WHY? Because you're not being represented? Because it's decided to focus on women and not men?

Fact is, this movement isn't about you. And that's okay. Start your own movement to improve reading comprehension scores among school-aged boys. Fight gang activity. Fight "dopey dad" stereotypes in the media. But don't make a woman's movement about you.
[/quote]


First off, where did I ever make this about me? And where did I ever even say the movement was worthless? I am not threatened because it doesn't represent me. Being threatened by the U.N. is like being threatened by an annoying little yapping chihuahua. I think (And I have stated) that women [i]are [/i]going through tough times, and though I'm sure you won't believe this about me, I believe they are going through a tougher time than men. But my point is this: These programs obviously aren't working. So what does that mean? We're focusing on the wrong thing. That doesn't mean focus on men, but focus on [i]both[/i]. Focusing on women hasn't worked, focusing on men hasn't worked. So why not try both? I have no problem with Day of the Girl at all. But I do believe it is as ineffective as trying to say it out loud in English. That's a problem because I want it to work. I want women to see themselves as they truly are. I want them to have self-esteem and to love themselves. I just don't think we're doing it the right way as is evident by the fact that these campaigns are not working.

Edited October 12, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1349980903' post='2492357']
Listen here Missy. Please explain how events such as this international day of the girl, TV ads/shows depicting boys as idiots and girls always getting the better of the boys, etc. has an effect on this gender bias you are talking about?
[/quote]

I read your other posts, but I'm just going to respond to this question specifically.

I believe that shows and other forms of media that depict men in a negative light are unfair. We should stand against those images just as we stand against images of women that are airheaded or "slutty."

So yes, there is a right and a wrong way to send a pro-woman message, and there are both good and bad parts to this. That doesn't mean we should throw it out altogether. Girls and young women today are drowning in media messages that belittle and confuse them, and it's become so infused in our culture that those messages look like the truth. We need to change our culture in a way that edifies both men and women. And I think untying all the lies women have been told about their worth is a good place to start.

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1350068765' post='2492849']

I read your other posts, but I'm just going to respond to this question specifically.

I believe that shows and other forms of media that depict men in a negative light are unfair. We should stand against those images just as we stand against images of women that are airheaded or "slutty."

So yes, there is a right and a wrong way to send a pro-woman message, and there are both good and bad parts to this. That doesn't mean we should throw it out altogether. Girls and young women today are drowning in media messages that belittle and confuse them, and it's become so infused in our culture that those messages look like the truth. We need to change our culture in a way that edifies both men and women. And I think untying all the lies women have been told about their worth is a good place to start.
[/quote]
I think if you did read my posts, I am not advocating the enslavement of women.

[MissyP89]

Goodness, I know that. I wasn't suggesting you were.

[Totus Tuus]

A vastly disproportionate amount of girls are aborted in China and India. Anti-girl sentiment is very prevalent in most cultures today (including in the US, which has a problem with human trafficking and is the largest exporter of pornography in the world-- industries which both profit off of the exploitation of women). I'm a feminist in the true sense, meaning that I seek equality for men & women, and an end to the oppression of women. Women have come a long way economically in the last century (gaining a right to vote and more equal opportunities in the work place), but there is still a LONG way to go. I believe a day of the girl is a good idea IF its purpose is to educate the public on the anti-woman injustices that are taking place in the world. However, feminism can go in the opposite direction (i.e., the mythical "war on women" in which contraception & abortion are not provided to women for free-- that's not true feminism, that's just idiocy).

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1349980903' post='2492357']
Listen here Missy. Please explain how events such as this international day of the girl, TV ads/shows depicting boys as idiots and girls always getting the better of the boys, etc. has an effect on this gender bias you are talking about?
[/quote]
Your issue is that you're seeing this through an Americocentric/first world lens. While the biggest problems we face might be like boys being portrayed as dolts on television, the UN operates in countries with real problems (like ones where [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mmusi_and_Others_v_Ramantele_and_Another"]it's breaking news that women can inherit property[/url] or ones in which [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai"]girls get shot in the head for trying to go to school[/url]). Misogynist is still a very real phenomenon in many parts of the world, particularly those in which it is institutionalized by theocratic means.

Edited October 13, 2012 by USAirwaysIHS

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1350138838' post='2493030']
Your issue is that you're seeing this through an Americocentric/first world lens. While the biggest problems we face might be like boys being portrayed as dolts on television, the UN operates in countries with real problems (like ones where [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mmusi_and_Others_v_Ramantele_and_Another"]it's breaking news that women can inherit property[/url] or ones in which [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai"]girls get shot in the head for trying to go to school[/url]). Misogynist is still a very real phenomenon in many parts of the world, particularly those in which it is institutionalized by theocratic means.
[/quote]
Misogynism*

[Papist]

[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111107003558/runescape/images/1/1f/Emoticon-Facepalm.gif[/img]

[Vincent Vega]

I would actually really like to see you articulate a response to my above post, because it would be very interesting to see just what sentiment I expressed that you object to...

[Ice_nine]

I agree. Facepalm is not warranted.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1350182758' post='2493211']
I would actually really like to see you articulate a response to my above post, because it would be very interesting to see just what sentiment I expressed that you object to...
[/quote]

Obviously holding his hand over his face was the thing you took issue with.

[4588686]

beeshes be crazy