Give Me A Reason Why Catholicism Is Preferable To Orthodoxy...

[Apotheoun]

If Rome moved to Byzantium or Russia, why have they not had ecumenical councils?

 

You probably are not aware of this, but the Eastern Orthodox Churches are preparing to convene an Ecumenical Council in late 2013 or early 2014.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Apotheoun

[Selah]

You probably are not aware of this, but the Eastern Orthodox Churches are preparing to convene an Ecumenical Council in late 2013 or early 2014.

 

Ooh, I didn't know that. Is there anything on what will be discussed?

[Apotheoun]

Ooh, I didn't know that. Is there anything on what will be discussed?

 

There are a range of issues.  One of the most important being the creation of autonomous Churches in the diaspora.  The Eastern Orthodox have already established Episcopal Assemblies in the various regions of the world (e.g., the Episcopal Assembly of North and Central America).  All the bishops within a given region participate in the Episcopal Assembly for their geographic area, regardless of ecclesiastical jurisdiction.  Ultimately these Bishops Assemblies will become the Holy Synod within their region, and the various jurisdictions will be united into one self-governing Orthodox Church for their area, with a metropolitan or patriarch.  

Other issues will also be discussed, as established and set forth in the pre-conciliar Pan-Orthodox conferences, which have taken place over the last few years.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Apotheoun

[theculturewarrior]

You probably are not aware of this, but the Eastern Orthodox Churches are preparing to convene an Ecumenical Council in late 2013 or early 2014.

 

That is good to know.  Really cool.  Question though, because I really don't know.  Have they convened any ecumenical councils to address doctrinal challenges to the deposit of faith?  For example, a council in which liberation theology says this about God, this is what it means to us as Orthodox?  If so, when was the last ecumenical council that the Orthodox convened to address doctrinal challenges (eg the development of doctrine)?

 

Will doctrine be discussed at their next council?

Edited December 4, 2012 by theculturewarrior

[Apotheoun]

That is good to know.  Really cool.  Question though, because I really don't know.  Have they convened any ecumenical councils to address doctrinal challenges to the deposit of faith?  For example, a council in which liberation theology says this about God, this is what it means to us as Orthodox?  If so, when was the last ecumenical council that the Orthodox convened to address doctrinal challenges (eg the development of doctrine)?

 

They have convened councils over the centuries that dealt with doctrinal matters, but Orthodox Christians reject the notion that doctrine "develops" over time.  They believe - as scripture teaches - that the "faith was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3) is - like God, who is its source - an immutable reality. As far as "liberation theology" is concerned, and some of the other modernist heresies that have affected the West over the course of the last few centuries, the Orthodox have not had these strange kinds of heresies develop within their own Tradition. Perhaps some of the difficulties the West has experienced are due to the fact that theology and liturgy were separated from each other in the Scholastic high middle ages in the Roman Church, while this approach was never adopted in the East.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Will doctrine be discussed at their next council?

 

It is my understanding that there may be discussions about matters of doctrine related to the "mysteries" of heretics, and whether they are grace filled or not.  The predominant viewpoint of Orthodox at the present time is that grace is inherently present in the Church when she celebrates the holy mysteries, but that heretical and schismatical groups, because they have separated themselves from the Church, cannot validly / efficaciously celebrate the holy mysteries.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Apotheoun

[theculturewarrior]

It is a dogma of the Catholic Church that doctrine does not evolve.  We believe that it is the same faith that the Apostles received, just like the DNA of a mustard seed is the same as the DNA of the tree.

Edited December 4, 2012 by theculturewarrior

[theculturewarrior]

Do the Orthodox believe that Catholics have valid sacraments?

[theculturewarrior]

As a grace-filled Catholic, I would object to that.

[Ice_nine]

Do the Orthodox believe that Catholics have valid sacraments?

 

 

I don't believe so. I kinda remember the Orthodox talking about having to do with God's economy? That the sacraments aren't valid but perhaps in God's mercy there's grace or something or other. My memory's a little bit fuzzy and this is probably a waste of internet juice. Don't quote me (and don't think you're cute if you actually hit the quote button like LOLZIMSOCLEVER)

[theculturewarrior]

I don't believe so. I kinda remember the Orthodox talking about having to do with God's economy? That the sacraments aren't valid but perhaps in God's mercy there's grace or something or other. My memory's a little bit fuzzy and this is probably a waste of internet juice. Don't quote me (and don't think you're cute if you actually hit the quote button like LOLZIMSOCLEVER)

 

I am on the cusp of midlife and staring into an abyss that you do not yet understand.  I will never put LOLIMSOCLEVER anywhere.  You have my word.

[Apotheoun]

It is a dogma of the Catholic Church that doctrine does not evolve.  We believe that it is the same faith that the Apostles received, just like the DNA of a mustard seed is the same as the DNA of the tree.

 

I understand that, and I am sure that the Eastern Orthodox I have talked to over the years know that Catholics officially reject the idea that doctrines evolve, but from an Orthodox perspective "doctrinal development" involves evolution, that is, it involves believing things that were not necessarily believed in the very beginning, and that goes against the Vincentian canon.  They would also accuse the Catholic Church of teaching a kind of "doctrinal hubris," and by this I mean that they would assert that it is most improper to say that a later generation of Christians knows more about God or Christ than the Apostolic generation.  Orthodox would affirm that the Church today knows exactly what the Church of Apostolic times knew, and nothing more or less than that.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Do the Orthodox believe that Catholics have valid sacraments?

 

Some Orthodox would deny that there is any grace in Catholic sacraments, while others would take an agnostic position on the matter, neither affirming nor denying that there is any grace in Catholic sacraments.

[Apotheoun]

As a grace-filled Catholic, I would object to that.

 

That is a natural response to being told that your Church is not grace filled.  I am sure Anglicans don't like it when Catholics say that Anglican sacraments are invalid.  I think the various Churches should be true to their own doctrinal heritage on the matter, and that people should not be so thin skinned.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

I don't believe so. I kinda remember the Orthodox talking about having to do with God's economy? That the sacraments aren't valid but perhaps in God's mercy there's grace or something or other. My memory's a little bit fuzzy and this is probably a waste of internet juice. Don't quote me (and don't think you're cute if you actually hit the quote button like LOLZIMSOCLEVER)

 

My Orthodox friends have explained it in this way:  Catholic sacraments - as far as many, and probably most Orthodox are concerned - are not grace filled; instead, they are empty ritual acts that mimic the holy mysteries of the Orthodox Catholic Church.  Nevertheless, through oikonomia a Bishop can receive a Catholic who converts to Orthodoxy without necessarily baptizing him again, because the Bishop - as the head of the household of the ecclesia - has the ability to fill the empty Catholic sacrament with grace when the man by his conversion removes all the obstacles (i.e., the various heretical things he believe and the various schismatical acts he performed)  to the flow grace, which alone exists in the Church of Christ.  In a sense, the empty vessel (i.e., the Catholic sacrament) is filled with grace upon the conversion of the individual to Orthodoxy through the power of the keys given to the Bishop.