Vincent Vega Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1349836525' post='2491835'] Good musicians, whether they are performers or composers, need not worry about making money off of their art. [/quote] And, I might add, that poor musicians ought not try to make money off of their art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1349841613' post='2491852'] And, I might add, that poor musicians ought not try to make money off of their art. [/quote] There is always a place for kitsch though, the place where poor musicians/artists can learn to become good ones. If they can find buyers for their little trifles then I say, let them be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1349841755' post='2491853'] There is always a place for kitsch though, the place where poor musicians/artists can learn to become good ones. If they can find buyers for their little trifles then I say, let them be. [/quote] Erratum: ought not try to make a living* off of their art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1349836525' post='2491835'] As a musician, I will answer this. As long as people have good taste, my salary is not threatened. If people would like to have canned music at their church services, such is life, but anyone with sense recognizes that that is not a realistic alternative to a flesh-and-blood organist (or accompanist of whatever kind). For that reason, performers are safe. As far as composers go, those who tend to nickel-and-dime in regards to copied music fall into two categories: publishers and hacks. The publishers are greedy for their own ends, and the hacks know that no one would pay for their music because it is bereft of value. Good composers make very little from music they've already published, the bulk of their income coming (as it has for hundreds and hundreds of years) from works commissioned by patrons. Good musicians, whether they are performers or composers, need not worry about making money off of their art. [/quote] [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1349841613' post='2491852'] And, I might add, that poor musicians ought not try to make money off of their art. [/quote] I knew there was a reason I still thought you were kind of cool. That was well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1349836172' post='2491833'] In the case of duplicating computer software, I think we can agree that it would be against the will of the owner, [/quote] Does this mean I don't own the programs on my computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349825312' post='2491762'] I don't. Are you making a consequentialist defense of IP? [/quote] Not at all. I really don't have a view on the matter right now. I'm honestly curious as to the method of maintaining the Catholic understanding that an artist can earn profit from his work while at the same time maintaining that "intellectual property" does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1349892779' post='2492021'] Not at all. I really don't have a view on the matter right now. I'm honestly curious as to the method of maintaining the Catholic understanding that an artist can earn profit from his work while at the same time maintaining that "intellectual property" does not exist. [/quote] One of the big ones in recent years is ad revenue from websites. Anyone can, with a bit of effort, make some change doing that. An artist could do so quite easily. That is one very simple example. There are many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349874974' post='2491913'] Does this mean I don't own the programs on my computer? [/quote] well, it seems to be, in many cases, that you are merely "leasing" the programs, or that is what is argued. case in point: ebooks vs real books. Real books, you can sell to a used bookstore, or trade them, or simply give them away. just try doing that with an ebook that is currently under copyright, that you've bought from amazon or barnes & noble. (not to mention my pet peeve of publishers asking the same amount of money for an ebook as they do a real book.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1349892779' post='2492021'] Not at all. I really don't have a view on the matter right now. I'm honestly curious as to the method of maintaining the Catholic understanding that an artist can earn profit from his work while at the same time maintaining that "intellectual property" does not exist. [/quote] I posted the above before reading the rest of page 2 and page 3, so I'm caught up a bit now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1349894899' post='2492033'] well, it seems to be, in many cases, that you are merely "leasing" the programs, or that is what is argued. case in point: ebooks vs real books. Real books, you can sell to a used bookstore, or trade them, or simply give them away. just try doing that with an ebook that is currently under copyright, that you've bought from amazon or barnes & noble. (not to mention my pet peeve of publishers asking the same amount of money for an ebook as they do a real book.) [/quote] As long as libraries exist, I have no problem downloading copies of whatever literature I want without paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1349892779' post='2492021'] Not at all. I really don't have a view on the matter right now. I'm honestly curious as to the method of maintaining the Catholic understanding that an artist can earn profit from his work while at the same time maintaining that "intellectual property" does not exist. [/quote] You sell your painting that you worked on. Someone sees that painting and paints a new painting that looks like yours. It's his effort, his materials. He sells it. You have no rights to his property. If you're not good enough to survive on that, or if the medium you've chosen doesn't support that, wait tables. Or become a welder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1349834383' post='2491815'] STTOOPPPPPP ITTTTTT 'Anarco'-capitalists are not anarchists. I mean, they have a right to call themselves whatever they want, and I'm not saying that their misappropriation of the anarchist label is in itself a discrediting fact, but they do not come out of the anarchist intellectual tradition (a tradition which considers private property a form of theft) and almost no anarchists recognize them as anarchists. Anarchism as an intellectual tradition has never just been about destroying public power systems and methods of coercion by public institutions so that private power systems and methods of coercion by private institutions can fill their place. North American extreme libertarians have their own intellectual tradition. And it is a respectable one. But it is different from the anarchist tradition. [/quote] Maybe traditional anarchists have perverted their own intellectual traditions with non-essentials. I honestly do not understand why a rejection of property as theft needs to be essential to anarchist philosophy. I mean, I am not particularly attached to the anarchist label, so I do not really feel like I have a horse in that race, but it simply does not seem to me to be that a rejection of private property is an essential part of 'orthodox' anarchism. Are you sure you are not just defining anarchism too narrowly? Anyway, I do not want to sidetrack the discussion here. I am just musing a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgUZqNHGTwA[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1349906743' post='2492082'] Anyway, I do not want to sidetrack the discussion here. I am just musing a bit. [/quote] I thought you were backing out of the room on the first page? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0&feature=relmfu"]423 million hits grossly downloaded freely from youtube no doubt results in obscene riches![/url] Edited October 10, 2012 by Mark of the Cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1349912658' post='2492111'] I thought you were backing out of the room on the first page? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0&feature=relmfu"]423 million hits grossly downloaded freely from youtube no doubt results in obscene riches![/url] [/quote] I am not really contributing to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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