Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 you do not like my response? reyb ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 This is exactly what needed to happen. Welcome to the Tabledome, Reyb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349010011' post='2488394'] you do not like my response? reyb ? [/quote] It is not about whether I like it or not. It is about the truth. What is the truth? (Jesus) said ‘Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’? This is not just a statement for today’s era since Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='reyb' timestamp='1349009088' post='2488393'] You said ‘we are all now chosen through christ and have access to the fullness of the spirit with the father in the name of jesus christ.’ Actually it is written in 1 Cor 12:3 'Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.' Now since you are referring to this historical Jesus as the Christ of God. Can you please explain to us in what way the Counselor, which is the Holy Spirit, came to these Holy Prophets since he (Jesus) said ‘Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’? [/quote] What i said before. We have un adulterated access to the holy spirit now through holy baptism and the lord and saviour christ jesus. Holy baptism frees us from the chains of original sin and sins of the past generations in our family tree and when freed of these in jesus name we cry out for the spirit of GOD to renew our lives. I heard a priest say one time that if a born again protestant christians asks a catholic christian "are you born again," we as catholic christians can respond "i was born again today and hopefully will be born again tommorow." I found that a very cheeky but child like response. The prophets of old where the chosen ones, but through jesus christ we can also become chosen ones of Yahweh. Jesus said many are called but few are chosen, so has anything changed ,it is still the few chosen ones that bring the spirit of GOD to the faithfull. But i believe that few per capita is more than the o.t. through the grace of the holy sacraments in jesus name, now if you add holy scripture and sacred tradition with those holy sacraments there are now actually many prophets to a degree each with a paticular message to bring to a dying world. And it reflects the holy trinity in a sense, Holy scripture,sacred tradition and the holy sacraments. 3 is 1. And there are different fruits in each area with the one purpose to unite the body of christ on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='reyb' timestamp='1349010780' post='2488396'] It is not about whether I like it or not. It is about the truth. What is the truth? (Jesus) said ‘Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’? This is not just a statement for today’s era since Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and Man. [/quote] Unsure what your getting at ? If my responses where not adequate than probably i don't know exactly, or you don't understand what i said and i'm unsure how to respond in a manner that you will fully comprhende. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 reyb, you know the Trinity is a mystery right? If I explained the Holy Spirit to you and you stated you now understand the Holy Spirit, then there is something flawed in my explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1349268176' post='2489554'] reyb, you know the Trinity is a mystery right? If I explained the Holy Spirit to you and you stated you now understand the Holy Spirit, then there is something flawed in my explanation. [/quote] A mystery that unfolds over time, personaly and communaly. The will of the father revealed through the son should not remain a mystery as such. But it is not always communal revelation of the will of the father but personal. <edit> though of course there is communal revelations of the will of the father also,sometimes infalible and sometimes just the right thing for the right time and not nescisarily infallible( scripture of the holy mass sometime last week i think(sorry for the vagueness of my memory lol) states there is a time for crying,and a time for laughing,a time for instructing and a time for listening etc etc [the list goes on for the whole reading.]) GOD bless you . P.s. this is just hopefully my humble opinion and not to be taken infallibly, if there are any tacos in what i said keep them and throw away the brussel sprouts. Edited October 4, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 the holy gospels tell us today that "no one knows the father except the son,and no one knows the father except the son and those the son chooses to reveal him to." In accordance with this scripture one can know the father but only through the son, if the son so chooses to reveal the father. I'm sure the father. through christ the son with the holy spirit is revealed to many christians in different ways at different times, communal revelation and personal revelation of the will of the father for life in the holy spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349012396' post='2488398'] Unsure what your getting at ? If my responses where not adequate than probably i don't know exactly, or you don't understand what i said and i'm unsure how to respond in a manner that you will fully comprhende. [/quote] In my previous post I discussed that true witnesses like Moses, Elijah and Paul are all Christians and they received the promised Holy Spirit after God revealed himself to them. This is very different on how Catholics have it. Catholics declared that this same Spirit comes to them when they received their sacraments of confirmation. This Catholics assertion is completely a deception. I know that priest and the entire priesthood truly believe having the blessing of the Holy Spirit but the truth is they are unaware of not having it. Their declaration is not possible. You cannot have the blessing of the Holy Spirit just because of sacraments or faith of having it. Faith has no power for that Spirit to come because, seeing the fulfilment of the coming of Christ is the only key for that Spirit to manifest and not your faith or belief. It won’t work by just believing in its coming the way you are now doing. Thus, unless you become a witness of this coming, like Apostle Paul, you will never have its blessing. Through this coming also God reveal himself to all witnessess from the very beginning of time when man realized that indeed there is God. Since no man can see God without seeing Christ therefore all of these witnessess have seen Christ who they called in many different names, in different times and in different religious settings like the rock of Israel, the son of Man, the seed of Abraham and the son of David. Today, Catholics accepts the reality of the existence of the historical Jesus since they see him in the bible in a way they themselves created it. Catholics, through their early church fathers, compiled the bible in a way they wanted it to be by imposing criterion in choosing among many sacred books or letters from different religious groupings at that time. It is not a secret, in early days of Christianity, Catholics and Marcionites are differed in seeing Jesus. Marcionites believe that Jesus is like a ghost while Catholics believe in physical existence of Jesus Christ which now I called historical Jesus. Therefore even before the bible was created. Catholics have their own belief about the Christ of God, and that is, He is the historical Jesus Christ. Catholics compiled many sacred books into one book which we now called the Holy Bible but none these books is written by a Catholic because none of them is a witness of Jesus Christ. Catholics are now looking to a historical Jesus Christ and all their faith, sacraments, doctrines, teachings, and hope are anchored in this ‘knowledge’. But this ‘knowledge’ did not come from God because none of its propagator has seen Jesus Christ neither it comes from any true Christians like the Holy Prophets or God’s witnesses because, they have seen this coming of Christ long before this idea about historical Jesus emerged in religious history. This idea about historical Jesus Christ comes solely from Catholics’ early church fathers because it is their belief. And this belief is the one handed down to you. Catholics are even saying, witnessess like Joah, Elijah, Abraham and Apostle Paul have seen Christ in a very special way in order to cushion the impact in their belief. They are agreeing to the statement without giving up their belief about the coming of historical Jesus. But Jesus Christ has come just once and for all (Romans 6:8-10, Heb 7:26-27,Heb 9:23-28). He did not come many times but just once and He was seen by all witnessess at that one time although witnesses are chosen by God at different times. (Act 17:24-31). Your early Church fathers did not teach you to seek the truth from God himself but they taught you to accept their belief and creed. They did not teach you to ask God who is His Christ, but taught you to accept their own historical Jesus as the Christ. They did not teach you to listen to your adversaries because they taught you to be united in mind and thought to whatever you are now sharing thus, for more than 2000 years, salvation of God through Christ is still a mystery to all of you. You have a mysterious Church, mysterious Sacraments, mysterious Trinity, mysterious oneness with Christ, mysterious offering, mysterious teachings, mysterious mother of God, everything is mysterious but the most mystery of all is that, you have the courage to claim having the blessing of Holy Spirit, this same spirit who reveals even the deep things of God. (1 Cor 2:10) I know you believe in the authenticity of the coming of this historical Jesus while I openly express my sentiment against it and boldly saying ‘your church’s fathers preached another Jesus different from the Jesus preached by all God witnesses’. I am aware too that it is hard for you to listen to me thus, we have this discussion, and my only intention is for you to seek the real One. Again, this is not to insult anyone but to remind you because none of you is seeking Him anymore. So, let us go back to our discussion. Suppose it is true that the only Christ of God is the historical Jesus i.e. he is the only mediator between God and man and then he (Jesus) said [indent=1]‘But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’. (see John 16:6-7).[/indent] Now if he is speaking only to these last generations (the generations after his coming). So this is my question: Who is that ‘He’ who set his Holy Spirit among them’ as mentioned in Isa 63:11-12 Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people — where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who set his Holy Spirit among them, who sent his glorious arm of power to be at Moses' right hand, Who is that ’he’ in above verse? Can you please explain it to me? Edited October 4, 2012 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I propose a moderated debate thread exclusively for Reyb and Tab to duke it out. I think we should settle this discussion once and for all... whatever it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1349330461' post='2489852'] I propose a moderated debate thread exclusively for Reyb and Tab to duke it out. I think we should settle this discussion once and for all... whatever it's about. [/quote] Thank you for the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 There. I have been seconded. Come on moderators, make this happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 [quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349311346' post='2489765'] A mystery that unfolds over time, personaly and communaly. The will of the father revealed through the son should not remain a mystery as such. But it is not always communal revelation of the will of the father but personal. <edit> though of course there is communal revelations of the will of the father also,sometimes infalible and sometimes just the right thing for the right time and not nescisarily infallible( scripture of the holy mass sometime last week i think(sorry for the vagueness of my memory lol) states there is a time for crying,and a time for laughing,a time for instructing and a time for listening etc etc [the list goes on for the whole reading.]) GOD bless you . P.s. this is just hopefully my humble opinion and not to be taken infallibly, if there are any tacos in what i said keep them and throw away the brussel sprouts. [/quote] [quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349315660' post='2489781'] the holy gospels tell us today that "no one knows the father except the son,and no one knows the father except the son and those the son chooses to reveal him to." In accordance with this scripture one can know the father but only through the son, if the son so chooses to reveal the father. I'm sure the father. through christ the son with the holy spirit is revealed to many christians in different ways at different times, communal revelation and personal revelation of the will of the father for life in the holy spirit. [/quote] The doctrine of the Holy Trinity, the teaching about salvation history and everything you said above is based on a belief that the historical Jesus is the Christ of God. But none of God’s witnesses testified about it - that the Holy Trinity is a mystery from God. They said ‘Christ is the mystery of God’ (see Col 2:2) and never about the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. You can see in the scripture that even in Moses time or during the time Apostle Paul from where all of them knew the blessing that comes from the guidance of the Holy Spirit nevertheless, none of them said that God is a triune God or God is the Holy Trinity. The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not a revelation from God. It is just a product of intense studies of religious scholars trying to present an answer to the question, who is God? It is a man’s philosophy rather than God’s revelation and the reason why they call it a ‘mystery’ is because they themselves cannot understood their own formulation. When there is prophecy, time will come it will be fulfilled and when there is mystery, time will come it will be revealed. But if you call an untruth provisions a mysterious one or a prophecy then, it will never be revealed because, it is not a mystery nor it will be fulfilled because, it is not a prophecy. It will remain an untruth provisions. And that is what is happening to your mysterious doctrine of the Holy Trinity because it is founded on a non-existing historical Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 [img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvt72wcYMN1qgeooe.gif[/img] [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb6gdtl0GG1ronq2yo2_500.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348968541' post='2488258'] Your dress would look great on my bedroom floor. [/quote] You used to say that to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now