Where Is He Who Set His Holy Spirit

[reyb]

[b] [size=4]Purple rat asked in CatholicQ&A (see Question About The Holy Spirit)[/size][/b]

Where was the Holy Spirit before Jesus "sent out" the Spirit? Why didn't the Holy Spirit dwell with everyone before that?

Thanks for your time.
--------------
And this is what he got from Catholic Scholars:


[quote]
The Holy Spirit is Co-Equal and Co-Eternal with the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit has always existed and been a part of the Holy Trinity. In the Creed we acknowledge that the Holy Spirit "has spoken through the prophets," acknowledging that the Holy Spirit was active in the lives of men before Christ's incarnation.

The Church's teaching is that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son." A helpful analogy is to imagine that the Holy Spirit is the active Love between the Father and the Son. Christ sends the Holy Spirit out over the earth in a new and more powerful way at Pentecost, but the Holy Spirit had already existed and had already been active in Creation, especially through the Prophets.

[/quote]

-------------------------------------------
Of course, Holy Prophets have the blessing of the Holy Spirit for they are all ‘Prophets of God’ as it is written in , Isa 63:11.

[indent=1]'Then his people recalled the days of old,[/indent]
[indent=1]the days of Moses and his people —[/indent]
[indent=1]where is he who brought them through the sea,[/indent]
[indent=1]with the shepherd of his flock?[/indent]
[indent=1]Where is he who set[/indent]
[indent=1]his Holy Spirit among them...,'[/indent]

Actually they are all Christians i.e. they belong to Christ since they have the Spirit of Christ (see Romans 8:9 and 1Peter 1:11).

These Holy Prophets are different set of ‘Christians’ since they are all witnesses of God unlike your early church fathers (i.e. Eusebius and Ignatius) who called themselves ‘Christians’ but none of them are witnesses of Christ. Therefore, they become ‘Christians’ thru other means. Now since you called yourself ‘Christians’ too in the likeness of your early church fathers. Can you please explain to us in what way Holy Spirit came to these Holy Prophets because it is written in John 16:5-11 – (Jesus said) ‘Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’

Again, if all of these witnesses are referring to your historical Jesus as Christ of God. Can you please explain to us in what way the Counselor, which is the Holy Spirit, came to these Holy Prophets?

Edited September 29, 2012 by reyb

[Winchester]

Jet plane.

[Selah]

[size=5][color=#333333]"Life isn't a loose sweater you toss off casually. Life is woven of people and places you wrap tightly around you. A tangle of messy moments and jumbled emotions, cherished for all its delightful imperfection. You embrace each day for what it is and aspire to make it more. To you, life is purposeful. And clothes should be effortless." - Christopher and Banks motto [/color][/size]

Edited September 30, 2012 by Selah

[Winchester]

Your dress would look great on my bedroom floor.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348968541' post='2488258']
Your dress would look great on my bedroom floor.
[/quote]
"Hey, how do you like your eggs?"
"Fertilized."

[Selah]

Yeah. That's inappropriate.

Please stop.

[Winchester]

rey is a dude i doubt he actually wears dresses

So this really actually qualifies as "absurd", rather than inappropriate.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Winchester

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1348930386' post='2487989']
[b] [size=4]Purple rat asked in CatholicQ&A (see Question About The Holy Spirit)[/size][/b]

Where was the Holy Spirit before Jesus "sent out" the Spirit? Why didn't the Holy Spirit dwell with everyone before that?

Thanks for your time.
--------------
And this is what he got from Catholic Scholars:




-------------------------------------------
Of course, Holy Prophets have the blessing of the Holy Spirit for they are all ‘Prophets of God’ as it is written in , Isa 63:11.

[indent=1]'Then his people recalled the days of old,[/indent]
[indent=1]the days of Moses and his people —[/indent]
[indent=1]where is he who brought them through the sea,[/indent]
[indent=1]with the shepherd of his flock?[/indent]
[indent=1]Where is he who set[/indent]
[indent=1]his Holy Spirit among them...,'[/indent]

Actually they are all Christians i.e. they belong to Christ since they have the Spirit of Christ (see Romans 8:9 and 1Peter 1:11).

These Holy Prophets are different set of ‘Christians’ since they are all witnesses of God unlike your early church fathers (i.e. Eusebius and Ignatius) who called themselves ‘Christians’ but none of them are witnesses of Christ. Therefore, they become ‘Christians’ thru other means. Now since you called yourself ‘Christians’ too in the likeness of your early church fathers. Can you please explain to us in what way Holy Spirit came to these Holy Prophets because it is written in John 16:5-11 – (Jesus said) ‘Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’

Again, if all of these witnesses are referring to your historical Jesus as Christ of God. Can you please explain to us in what way the Counselor, which is the Holy Spirit, came to these Holy Prophets?
[/quote]


I believe the answer you got is sufficient. You need not try to twist it every which way but loose in a vain attempt to deny God's teaching.

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1348975087' post='2488314']
I believe the answer you got is sufficient. You need not try to twist it every which way but loose in a vain attempt to deny God's teaching.
[/quote]



You are really making me laugh. How come your teaching comes from God if all of them are having 'loopholes'? And when there are ‘loopholes’ it only mean one thing. You are still in the dark. So, look at that loopholes and you will see the light at the other side.

Edited September 30, 2012 by reyb

[Winchester]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1348978629' post='2488329']


You are really making me laugh. How come your teaching comes from God if all of them are having 'loopholes'? And when there are ‘loopholes’ it only mean one thing. You are still in the dark.
[/quote]
Looks like someone has a favorite phrase.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1348978629' post='2488329']
You are really making me laugh. How come your teaching comes from God if all of them are having 'loopholes'? And when there are ‘loopholes’ it only mean one thing. You are still in the dark. So, look at that loopholes and you will see the light at the other side.
[/quote]


Why do you call your misunderstanding of God's teaching loopholes? If you are truly interested in the Truth you would be seeking to understand where your own understanding falls short instead of try to poke false holes into the beliefs and understanding of 2.5 billion other people.

I do not believe you are interested in the Truth however. You will have to convince me otherwise.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

reyb i think your searchings are amicable and valid, don't listen to the animosities/delibrate sarcasm and mockery. The only way i know how to answer this is jesus sends the holy spirit in his fullness at pentecost and to those after pentecost whom are honestly seeking christ as a christian. Has the holy spirit never before appeared, no! Does the holy spirit never before christ appear in his fullness? No! The holy spirit appeared to the prophets in his fullness recorded and possibly some not recorded, but not in it's fullness to ordinary un-chosen men, we are all now chosen through christ and have access to the fullness of the spirit with the father in the name of jesus christ. That is all my weak attempt to explain the matter and should not be taken as absolute. To deny the power of the holy spirit in the old testament would deny the power of GOD through such prophets as elijah and moses whom appeared with christ at the transfiguration. Ordinary christians now have access to the same spirit that the great prophets gave to the people of israel in times of distress, the old testament is a tooing and frowing of the nation of israel towards the lord. I think st paul states we need not souljourn anymore since christ has come and revealed the will of the father through the holy spirit to all believers, possibly all mankind to some degree. I honestly don't know the perfect answer, so you get an imperfect answer from an imperfect man given hopefully in love with faith.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

reyb i think your searchings are amicable and valid, don't listen to the animosities/delibrate sarcasm and mockery. The only way i know how to answer this is jesus sends the holy spirit in his fullness at pentecost and to those after pentecost whom are honestly seeking christ. Has the holy spirit never before appeared, no! Does the holy spirit never before christ appear in his fullness? No! The holy spirit appeared to the prophets in his fullness recorded and possibly some not recorded, but not in it's fullness to ordinary un-chosen men, we are all now chosen through christ and have access to the fullness of the spirit with the father in the name of jesus christ. That is all my weak attempt to explain the matter and should not be taken as absolute. To deny the power of the holy spirit in the old testament would deny the power of GOD through such prophets as elijah and moses whom appeared with christ at the transfiguration. Ordinary christians now have access to the same spirit that the great prophets gave to the people of israel in times of distress, the old testament is a tooing and frowing of the nation of israel towards the lord. I think st paul states we need not souljourn anymore since christ has come and revealed the will of the father through the holy spirit to all believers, possibly all mankind to some degree. I honestly don't know the perfect answer, so you get an imperfect answer from an imperfect man given hopefully in love with faith.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1348979755' post='2488333']


Why do you call your misunderstanding of God's teaching loopholes? If you are truly interested in the Truth you would be seeking to understand where your own understanding falls short instead of try to poke false holes into the beliefs and understanding of 2.5 billion other people.

I do not believe you are interested in the Truth however. You will have to convince me otherwise.
[/quote]


Let us discuss this in proper perspective. The truth you are talking is actually Catholic doctrines which are believed to be from God by Catholics themselves but, it does not follow it is ‘the truth from God’ in real sense of this statement because that truth you are presenting is just a Catholic belief.

To make it short, everything and all teachings of Catholicism are based on a belief that they have the blessing of the Holy Spirit. But again, it does not follow that they really have that same Spirit who guided all witnesses or writers of the scripture because, these witnesses like Moses and Paul enjoy the blessing of the Holy Spirit since they seek the truth from God and by the grace of God they found Him. Therefore, they received this Spirit from God himself. But Catholics do not acquire your Holy Spirit in that way. You just believe having it thru your sacraments and teachings. Therefore, it is your faith that works in claiming having that Spirit and not by God in revealing himself.

This is where the battle begins. It is your spirit against my spirit. Nevertheless, I am not your enemy because I know your good intention as Apostle Paul said in 2 Cor 11:10-12

'As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about'.

Your good intention is to be a true disciple of Christ or to be a disciple of true Christ thus, he said ‘to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about’.

I said your teachings are full of 'loopholes and I know you do not believe me. So, show it to us since we are honourably discussing the truth.

Again this is my question:

If all of these witnesses are referring to your historical Jesus as Christ of God. Can you please explain to us in what way the Counselor, which is the Holy Spirit, came to these Holy Prophets since he (Jesus) said ‘Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’?

[reyb]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349001141' post='2488376']
reyb i think your searchings are amicable and valid, don't listen to the animosities/delibrate sarcasm and mockery. The only way i know how to answer this is jesus sends the holy spirit in his fullness at pentecost and to those after pentecost whom are honestly seeking christ. Has the holy spirit never before appeared, no! Does the holy spirit never before christ appear in his fullness? No! The holy spirit appeared to the prophets in his fullness recorded and possibly some not recorded, but not in it's fullness to ordinary un-chosen men, we are all now chosen through christ and have access to the fullness of the spirit with the father in the name of jesus christ. That is all my weak attempt to explain the matter and should not be taken as absolute. To deny the power of the holy spirit in the old testament would deny the power of GOD through such prophets as elijah and moses whom appeared with christ at the transfiguration. Ordinary christians now have access to the same spirit that the great prophets gave to the people of israel in times of distress, the old testament is a tooing and frowing of the nation of israel towards the lord. I think st paul states we need not souljourn anymore since christ has come and revealed the will of the father through the holy spirit to all believers, possibly all mankind to some degree. I honestly don't know the perfect answer, so you get an imperfect answer from an imperfect man given hopefully in love with faith.
[/quote]

You said ‘we are all now chosen through christ and have access to the fullness of the spirit with the father in the name of jesus christ.’ Actually it is written in 1 Cor 12:3

'Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.'

Now since you are referring to this historical Jesus as the Christ of God. Can you please explain to us in what way the Counselor, which is the Holy Spirit, came to these Holy Prophets since he (Jesus) said ‘Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you’?

Edited September 30, 2012 by reyb