Charismatic Renewal

[the171]

My conversion can be attributed to the Renewal. I owe a lot to that spirituality.

[Slappo]

The Holy Spirit has blessed me with many gifts:
wisdom, understanding, wonder and awe, right judgement, knowledge, courage, and reverence

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1349015604' post='2488404']
From my experience, this is probably the worst place to ask, on the grounds that not many here are open to the Charismatic Renewal.

Which is extremely tragic.
[/quote]

ThePenciledOne is right -- what I have found on the phorum is that there are few that are open to the Renewal. Case in point -- the guitar vs. organ threads. Since I usually feel "beaten down" with such topics I stay away from it.

Byzantine -- you may want to do some searches online. There are national committees for the Charismatic Renewal. There is a fairly newly updated website in Spanish, so I think there's probably the same in english.

As Brother Adam said -- this is approved by the Church, and has national and international committees. If memory serves correctly, there is also a liason to the Vatican (I have to double check). Yes I have seen some issues, but I think if you look hard enough at all of the different groups/spiritualities in the Church you will find issues as well.

It isn't meant for everyone -- for example, not everyone belongs to Cursillo, or the NeoCatechumenal Way, or Legion of Mary, or ACTS, or CHRP, or etc. etc. etc. but it is there to enhance the Church experience (in my opinion) and hopefully help those who participate in their faith walks and to help them in the higher goal of sanctification.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1349115998' post='2488835']
As Brother Adam said -- this is approved by the Church, and has national and international committees. If memory serves correctly, there is also a liason to the Vatican (I have to double check). Yes I have seen some issues, but I think if you look hard enough at all of the different groups/spiritualities in the Church you will find issues as well.
[/quote]

...not to mention, the Preacher to the Papal household is charismatic...

[BG45]

Instead of copying and pasting the same thing I do every time this thread comes up, but we are beginning to actually discuss things a little, let me say just a small piece.

Have I been to Charismatic Catholic events? Yes, I have. Have I been to Protestant Pentecostal events? Yes, I have. However, the two were in no way the same, except in both claiming the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Pentecostals screamed, yelled, flopped on the floor convulsing...these things colored my impression of what a Charismatic Catholic event would be like and I was dragged pretty much with the utmost reservations to my first one. So that first time at a Catholic one, I was silent, and I observed...and what I saw was an interesting dichotomy. People were quiet when the Gospel was read, the 'tongues' were never really loud enough to interfere with anything, it was so ordered, so peaceful in comparison. Looking at it from a sociological standpoint, a more rational part of me wonders if this has to do with the ordered liturgical style of Catholic worship compared to the more freeform raucous worship of Pentecostals.

I approach things not whole-heartedly in favor of them, but testing them, as we are commanded to do in the Bible. I approach the Charismatic movement with an inherent skepticism. That does not mean that I feel it is "wrong". Quite to the contrary, as has previously been discussed in this thread, the Church recognizes it as valid, and depending on the context, so do I. I have yet to attend a Charismatic Catholic Night of Worship or Festival of Praise where I felt the unease I did in a Pentecostal service, nor one where it has been anything but respectful and filled with awe toward God. Nor have I ever turned down an opportunity to go, when I can go with someone else, rather than alone.

Though I did have a similar experience to TJTM, in that I once had a priest stare at me unsure of what had just happened, because I was the only person he had prayed over in such a long period not to be "slain" in the Spirit. What that priest never knew and still doesn't know, however, is that God used him to perform a miracle; a spiritual and emotional healing that would never have occurred were the Holy Spirit not present.

All of that said and done, I agree with Carmenchristi; when someone's faith is "Charismatic" instead of "Catholic", there's a big problem. When someone identifies themselves by how they prefer to worship, as compared to what they are, there's a problem. That's why I hate arguments about the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo, about Charismatic Catholics vs. Catholics. Katholikos. Universal. There is but one Faith, one Truth in Jesus Christ. We are not to be divided by our squabbles, not to claim we follow Paul or Apollos, but instead we must follow Christ.

[4588686]

I have been slain in the spirits many times.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1349015604' post='2488404']
From my experience, this is probably the worst place to ask, on the grounds that not many here are open to the Charismatic Renewal.

Which is extremely tragic.
[/quote]
The interesting thing to me is how often I find people who self identify as "charismatic" to be so vehemently closed off to the tried-and-true ways of the Church.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1349143409' post='2489079']
I have been slain in the spirits many times.
[/quote]

Hasan, you're going to make a lucky man very happy one day.

Edited October 2, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1349153483' post='2489139']
The interesting thing to me is how often I find people who self identify as "charismatic" to be so vehemently closed off to the tried-and-true ways of the Church.
[/quote]

[img]http://chzjustcapshunz.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/funny-captions-oh-burn.jpg[/img]

[the171]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1349153483' post='2489139']
The interesting thing to me is how often I find people who self identify as "charismatic" to be so vehemently closed off to the tried-and-true ways of the Church.
[/quote]

I also find a large majority who love the Church, who attend Traditional Latin Mass, they encourage vocations. Orthodox, faithful, and traditional. They just happen to have a charismatic spirituality.

[img]http://zipmeme.com/uploads/generated/g133418498561584072.jpg[/img]

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1349199371' post='2489246']

I also find a large majority who love the Church, who attend Traditional Latin Mass, they encourage vocations. Orthodox, faithful, and traditional. They just happen to have a charismatic spirituality.

[/quote]
While this doesn't contradict anything I said, I am curious about one thing, and have never been able to get a good, colloquial answer from anyone: what is a "charismatic spirituality", and why does it tend to be associated with very evangelical protestant, P&W sort of worship?

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1349153483' post='2489139']
The interesting thing to me is how often I find people who self identify as "charismatic" to be so vehemently closed off to the tried-and-true ways of the Church.
[/quote]

As long as you don't automatically assume that someone who is part of the renewal is, as you said, "so vehemently closed off to the tried-and-true ways of the Church" then I'm ok with the statement. Otherwise you're generalizing.

There are people who probably identify as charismatic that are feminists and liberals. And there are those who are not.

[cmaD2006]

BUT before I digress too far ... remember everyone this isn't debate table. And I'm sure there are plenty of threads over there to go into a full fledged debate over the charismatic renewal.

(Case in point -- I avoid debate table 99% of the time so that my blood pressure doesn't rise, and so that my headaches don't get any worse than they are ).

[PhuturePriest]

It may shock some to know Mother Angelica was part of a charismatic movement in her early days of building EWTN. She was quite active in it for a while. However, she got out of it when she saw all of the problems. It became more about feeling and about speaking tongues than about the Church and truth, which is a definite danger in charismatic movements. Humans are so prone to weakness when it comes to feeling, and charismatic movements have been known to be subject to this. I wouldn't say every charismatic is a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I would say a very sizable group of them is all feelings and no emphasis on the Catholic Church.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1349203351' post='2489292']
It may shock some to know Mother Angelica was part of a charismatic movement in her early days of building EWTN. She was quite active in it for a while. However, she got out of it when she saw all of the problems. It became more about feeling and about speaking tongues than about the Church and truth, which is a definite danger in charismatic movements. Humans are so prone to weakness when it comes to feeling, and charismatic movements have been known to be subject to this. I wouldn't say every charismatic is a wolf in sheep's clothing, but I would say a very sizable group of them is all feelings and no emphasis on the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

The emotionalism and pseudo-sacraments like slain in the spirit, do present great dangers. The movement was born out of Protestantism, much of its protestant theology remains which also presents dangers.