No Tax Payment, No Blessing!

[Slappo]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1348874516' post='2487755']
$50 a month pays a bill or two in my house hombre....
[/quote]

Yes because that's exactly the point I was getting at . I'm pretty darn sure $600 a year isn't worth renouncing my faith.

[Anomaly]

Isn't it the Religions taking advantage of civil law to collect money from its members?

It's not just Catholics. The other Christians are doing it as well, though it appears they aren't withholding Sacraments/blessings for not participating through Governvernment tax collection apparatus.

[ACS67]

This is Chicago ganster stuff....extortion, blackmail....and it's wrong. This is the type of nonsense that sent the French peasants over the edge....(French Revolution). Furthermore Slappo, $600 can buy a lot of groceries (especially Ramen noodles!)...

I state again, "I do not pay to pray." Period. End.

Edited September 29, 2012 by ACS67

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1348881499' post='2487827']
Isn't it the Religions taking advantage of civil law to collect money from its members?

It's not just Catholics. The other Christians are doing it as well, though it appears they aren't withholding Sacraments/blessings for not participating through Governvernment tax collection apparatus.
[/quote]


That is because they have no sacraments to withhold.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1348881146' post='2487824']

It has nothing to do with complying with an unjust law. It has everything to do with renouncing your faith. You can't "fake" renounce your faith in order to bypass an unjust law.
[/quote]
You think there's an obligation to some thugs. I don't.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348884573' post='2487846']
You think there's an obligation to some thugs. I don't.
[/quote]

I don't think there's an obligation to pay the tax. I do think there's an obligation to not renounce your faith.

Make sure your paycheck doesn't; have enough taxes being withheld, calculate what portion would be the "church tax" and short pay the government that much.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1348886528' post='2487860']

I don't think there's an obligation to pay the tax. I do think there's an obligation to not renounce your faith.

Make sure your paycheck doesn't; have enough taxes being withheld, calculate what portion would be the "church tax" and short pay the government that much.
[/quote]
Government forms lack the power you're attributing to them.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348886633' post='2487862']
Government forms lack the power you're attributing to them.
[/quote]

The dollar amount on the check you write most certainly has the power i attribute to it. When the government audits you to make you pay up, fight it in court.

[dUSt]

Winchester is very brave. So brave that he would check the little box that says he's not a Catholic to stand up to the evil government, to avoid having to actually stand up to the evil government.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1348887661' post='2487869']

The dollar amount on the check you write most certainly has the power i attribute to it. When the government audits you to make you pay up, fight it in court.
[/quote]
I have other things to do with my life.

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1348895090' post='2487900']
Winchester is very brave. So brave that he would check the little box that says he's not a Catholic to stand up to the evil government, to avoid having to actually stand up to the evil government.
[/quote]
Where did I say what I would do?

[Anomaly]

So basically, the Religions have doctrines that require financial contributions from its members. They use the power of the State to force collection of finances from its members. If you disagree that financial contribution is mandatory instead of voluntary, you cannot belong to the Religion.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1348933616' post='2488026']
So basically, the Religions have doctrines that require financial contributions from its members. They use the power of the State to force collection of finances from its members. If you disagree that financial contribution is mandatory instead of voluntary, you cannot belong to the Religion.
[/quote]
You can belong, you just can't receive sacraments. Since the sacraments are Church property, they're well within their rights. The Bishops have chosen to ally themselves with the State, and such is their right as princes of the Church.

[Aloysius]

I find this absolutely disgusting of the German Bishops and the Vatican. membership in the Church is NOT supposed to have anything to do with paperwork and check-boxes, it is a sacramental reality deeply connected to faith and belief. where in the Catechism or the Code of Canon Law has the definition of membership in the Catholic Church changed to only include as members of the Catholic Church those who the state recognizes as her members?

the German bishops and the Vatican should be [b]ashamed [/b]of themselves. This is the type of thing that should go down in history as an embarrassment and a scandal just as bad as the sale of indulgences.

now, suredly it is a sin to publicly renounce the faith; I'm not quite sure whether I'd hold failing to check "Catholic" on any particular form as quite qualifying as sinfully renouncing the faith, because I don't think anyone has a particular moral requirement to identify themselves as Catholic on a tax form. now, it would depend on what exact box you are required to check on the form; I suppose checking a box that said "I hereby renounce the Catholic Church" would certainly be a sin, but simply checking a box for "unaffiliated" would be more akin to simply saying you did not wish to be affiliated with any of the taxing institutions.

either way, I don't think that the checkboxes on a tax form in any way meet the requirements for the type of defection from the Catholic Faith that would qualify one for latae sentantiae excommunication. the act does not in any way meet the qualifications of a mortal sin that would be required before the penalty of excommunication could be imposed.

may God deliver us from such evil men who withhold the sacraments of Jesus Christ from these poor souls because of their love affair with all things institutional. this is [b]SIMONY[/b], and I don't have any qualms about calling it out as such. those who defend it as such should remember that there are always seemingly sensible arguments to defend such evil practices; when indulgences were being sold, the line was that the giving of alms to the Church qualifies as a good act, and of course the Church could attach an indulgence to a good act like donating to the Church. that's the same line of reasoning as defending this despicable practice on the idea that failing to check a box on a tax form qualifies as defection from the Catholic faith.

remember folks: the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Aloysius

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348933917' post='2488027']

You can belong, you just can't receive sacraments. Since the sacraments are Church property, they're well within their rights. The Bishops have chosen to ally themselves with the State, and such is their right as princes of the Church.
[/quote]So if you don't pay money, the Princes of theChurch con deny you Gods graces and cripple your efforts or chances for Salvation.
Sign me up?