Brother Adam Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 This is becoming a huge problem here. Sports on Sunday morning for elementary to high school students. More and more families are skipping Mass altogether because of games, tournaments, and practice on Sunday morning and the need for homework on Sunday night. There are even local parishes offering sacramental prep once a month on Sunday evening to accommodate. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1348696357' post='2487054'] This is becoming a huge problem here. Sports on Sunday morning for elementary to high school students. More and more families are skipping Mass altogether because of games, tournaments, and practice on Sunday morning and the need for homework on Sunday night. There are even local parishes offering sacramental prep once a month on Sunday evening to accommodate. What do you think? [/quote] I hate that this is a reality. It's a problem here, too. I'm saddened (but not surprised) that people opt to skip mass in favor of sports (or anything else, for that matter). I think it's wise of parishes to try to accommodate people as much as possible. When they do, there's really no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 Why is it wise of parishes to accommodate? Does that implicitly teach that sports (or anything) is more important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 It is to the kids and parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1348703046' post='2487085'] Why is it wise of parishes to accommodate? Does that implicitly teach that sports (or anything) is more important? [/quote] My natural inclination is to say "tough luck" to those who have other obligations on Sunday morning, but I'm trying to put aside my own feelings in favor of making the Sacraments as accessible to as many people as possible. Hopefully, the more people partake of the Sacraments, the more inclined they will be to make them a higher priority. Limiting access when it's not necessary to do so isn't the answer, I don't believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 I'm not sure we are talking about limiting access to the Sacraments so much as we are asking our pastors to accommodate peoples own secular schedules or demands. I'll give you some examples of things that have happened in our diocese just in the past year: - A couple who showed no indication that they had responded to an invitation to faith wanted to get baptized as fast as possible so they could be godparents. I invited them to RCIA and they asked us to baptize them within two weeks so they could be at their friends baptism. The next week they found a pastor who would do it for them. - A couple wanted to become Catholic, but you guessed it, refused to stop contracepting (specifically, using abortaficients). Father gently explained to them the vision of the Church for the human body and marriage. The next week they came back with a smug grin that another church would give them the Sacraments and it did not matter that they were using contraception because everyone does (I confirmed it with the parish). - I am not making this up - I was chewed out a year ago by a parent who demanded the bishop change the time of our Confirmation Mass because she had a dinner party that night or they would leave the Church. - Last year two parents at one of our parishes demanded that they go into the confessional with their children, and the priests obliged them so their children would receive absolution. I'm not kidding. I do not see the fruits of faith in these families that opt for the "easy and wide road" to sacramental preparation and I feel like we are enabling these families. Statistics are clear - what few families are left scatter after Confirmation and only 10% of young adult Catholics bother showing up for Mass. I'm all for early and liberal access to the Sacraments (I lowered the grade to the earliest possible year for Confirmation), but while fulfilling our Christian mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Your earlier post mentioned offering sacramental prep once a month on a Sunday evening to accomodate sports schedules. I don't see a problem with that. When else might it be offered? I don't see a problem with offerning it when the most people can take advantage of it. (Our 2nd grade sacramental prep is Tues. or Wed. evening, so I don't really see a difference here.) Now.... the other issues you bring up in your post above are much different, imho. I believe them all (even the "let's move Confirmation to accomodate me" because I know there are people like that).... That's a whole different kettle of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1348756738' post='2487232'] I'm not sure we are talking about limiting access to the Sacraments so much as we are asking our pastors to accommodate peoples own secular schedules or demands. I'll give you some examples of things that have happened in our diocese just in the past year: - A couple who showed no indication that they had responded to an invitation to faith wanted to get baptized as fast as possible so they could be godparents. I invited them to RCIA and they asked us to baptize them within two weeks so they could be at their friends baptism. The next week they found a pastor who would do it for them. - A couple wanted to become Catholic, but you guessed it, refused to stop contracepting (specifically, using abortaficients). Father gently explained to them the vision of the Church for the human body and marriage. The next week they came back with a smug grin that another church would give them the Sacraments and it did not matter that they were using contraception because everyone does (I confirmed it with the parish). - I am not making this up - I was chewed out a year ago by a parent who demanded the bishop change the time of our Confirmation Mass because she had a dinner party that night or they would leave the Church. - Last year two parents at one of our parishes demanded that they go into the confessional with their children, and the priests obliged them so their children would receive absolution. I'm not kidding. I do not see the fruits of faith in these families that opt for the "easy and wide road" to sacramental preparation and I feel like we are enabling these families. Statistics are clear - what few families are left scatter after Confirmation and only 10% of young adult Catholics bother showing up for Mass. I'm all for early and liberal access to the Sacraments (I lowered the grade to the earliest possible year for Confirmation), but while fulfilling our Christian mission. [/quote] I do not envy your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 My home parish is having a similar problem. This is my pastor's first assignment on his own, and at first he tried to work with people, thinking that their situations were exceptional. As it turns out many families have this attitude that you're describing...so he decided to stop accommodating in all but a very, very limited number of cases. It's made him really unpopular, and faith formation enrollment is at the lowest it's been in a long time, but I think it's the right thing to do. It'd be one thing if families were attending Saturday evening Mass and asked to use the faith formation textbooks at home so that their kids could keep up. It's another if they want their faith to completely conform to how they want to live their lives. And really, if people have the attitude that the parish needs to accommodate them or they're leaving the Church...they've basically left the Church already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Clearly at this point we are [i]not[/i] retaining the majority of young people who grow up getting their sacraments. The prevailing wisdom is not working. I can absolutely see how by not accommodating 'those' people, we might actually increase the number of people who actually take the Sacraments seriously. Perhaps we should give this "experiment of Tradition" another shot. We could stop making things easy. In fact make them a bit harder. Make the kids actually have to invest some energy and intellect before they receive the Sacraments. Make them think about it. Make them make an effort to understand what they are doing. Make the parents commit. Make them realize that church is not just another community social function like after school soccer or the school bake sale. Impress upon them that church is something different, with its own set of norms and rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 On a different note, when my dd was going into ninth grade, she asked if she could be confirmed a year early-- 10th grade is what the archbishop has decided on for our archdiocese. When we spoke to our priest, he said, "no." If he made an exception for dd and word got out, he would be bombarded by requests for early confirmation to accommodate sports/job/school schedules that accompany later HS years. This was not my daughter's motive at all, and it had not occurred to us that she would be denied because of that. While we did not agree with the decision, we decided to offer it up and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348768470' post='2487291'] Clearly at this point we are [i]not[/i] retaining the majority of young people who grow up getting their sacraments. The prevailing wisdom is not working. I can absolutely see how by not accommodating 'those' people, we might actually increase the number of people who actually take the Sacraments seriously. Perhaps we should give this "experiment of Tradition" another shot. We could stop making things easy. In fact make them a bit harder. Make the kids actually have to invest some energy and intellect before they receive the Sacraments. Make them think about it. Make them make an effort to understand what they are doing. Make the parents commit. Make them realize that church is not just another community social function like after school soccer or the school bake sale. Impress upon them that church is something different, with its own set of norms and rules. [/quote] This is one reason why I'm for an older confirmation age. If we're not going to have it before first communion, then we might as well make sure the kids are getting confirmed for the right reasons and with a good religious education. And for first communion, at least in my diocese kids have to have at least a full year of religious education beforehand. That particular rule has resulted in a LOT of frustrated parents, but the kids know their stuff so well it's incredible. Now they're asking their parents to go to mass, and we've even had some kids with celiac disease who [i]begged [/i]their parents to let them receive under both species, even though it was thoroughly explained that the body, blood, soul, and divinity is fully present in both. The parents relented and prepared for a night of really upset stomachs, but the kids were perfectly fine. Eucharistic miracle or just an isolated incident? I don't know. What I do know is that with the extra education these kids receive, the spiritual fruits of the sacraments have grown exponentially in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1348769660' post='2487300'] This is one reason why I'm for an older confirmation age. If we're not going to have it before first communion, then we might as well make sure the kids are getting confirmed for the right reasons and with a good religious education. [/quote] you'll have the same problem: parents who bring their kids for the year for first communion, then leave until the year they need to show up until confirmation. it's a culture problem that won't be easily solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1348769660' post='2487300'] This is one reason why I'm for an older confirmation age. If we're not going to have it before first communion, then we might as well make sure the kids are getting confirmed for the right reasons and with a good religious education. And for first communion, at least in my diocese kids have to have at least a full year of religious education beforehand. That particular rule has resulted in a LOT of frustrated parents, but the kids know their stuff so well it's incredible. Now they're asking their parents to go to mass, and we've even had some kids with celiac disease who [i]begged [/i]their parents to let them receive under both species, even though it was thoroughly explained that the body, blood, soul, and divinity is fully present in both. The parents relented and prepared for a night of really upset stomachs, but the kids were perfectly fine. Eucharistic miracle or just an isolated incident? I don't know. What I do know is that with the extra education these kids receive, the spiritual fruits of the sacraments have grown exponentially in them. [/quote] And just as a tangent, we need to get everyone past that idea that confirmation is essentially the moment where the child "finally chooses for himself" to be part of the Church. That little meme should never have become as widespread as it has. Bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1348769953' post='2487302'] you'll have the same problem: parents who bring their kids for the year for first communion, then leave until the year they need to show up until confirmation. it's a culture problem that won't be easily solved. [/quote]Exactly! It's a culture that believes important things should be easy and if you can't do it yourself, others are obliged to accomodate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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