George Orwell Was A Socialist

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1348773587' post='2487341']
What is property?[/quote]
That over which one has the highest claim, which is also scarce and rivalrous (thus one cannot own an idea).

A claim higher relative to others could also make something effectively property of one rather than another.


[quote]
Ok. Who says that you get to utilize natural resources? What gives you any claim to take some of the common enviorment and appropriate it to your personal use? [/quote]
Did you make first use of the resource? Did you intend by that use to lay claim to it?

Are you arguing that one cannot own property? All resources are ultimately traced to use of a natural resource.



[quote]No. I mean capitalism. Capitalism is different from a mere free market. It's a particular economic system which emerged in the Europe along side the modern European state (by pure coincidence, I'm sure)
[/quote]
I'm quite happy to use "free markets", but your definition is not absolute, nor is it what an-caps mean when they use the term.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Winchester

[4588686]

[QUOTE]Did you make first use of the resource?[/QUOTE]

Who says that anybody has a right to use finite resources. That's an exceptionally extreme place to start from, but I tend to approach these things dialectically so that'd be the more extreme anti-thesis. Everybody needs water, air et cetera. Things produced by the earth. Why does anyone have a right to use common resources for their private advancement?

[QUOTE]Did you intend by that use to lay claim to it?[/QUOTE]

Well, in the case of natural resources I'm using them by being a living being. If a private corporation destroys the entire rain-forest people are going to be severly impacted.

[QUOTE]Are you arguing that one cannot own property? All resources are ultimately traced to use of a natural resource.[/QUOTE]

I don't see how property is anything other than something that labor plus that of the common resources that an individual has appropriated to himself for his private use under the sanction of the state or his own capacity to secure his appropriation through either the threat violence or the consent of everybody else.




[QUOTE]I'm quite happy to use "free markets", but your definition is not absolute, nor is it what an-caps mean when they use the term.
[/quote]

I honestly don't think that anarcho-capitalists and left anarchists are as far apart as the two sides sometimes seem to think. it's been a long time since I really identified as a libertarian socialist but most of the objections I encountered, outside of internet echo chambers, was that anarcho-capitalists tended to focus pragmatically on weakening the state at a time when the bigger danger was corporate domination and the many of the policies of the state which they most vocally opposed, at least seemingly, were policies which were not really the most oppressive functions of the state.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1348794816' post='2487459']
Who says that anybody has a right to use finite resources. That's an exceptionally extreme place to start from, but I tend to approach these things dialectically so that'd be the more extreme anti-thesis. Everybody needs water, air et cetera. Things produced by the earth. Why does anyone have a right to use common resources for their private advancement? [/quote]
Who has the authority to say we don't?



[quote]Well, in the case of natural resources I'm using them by being a living being. If a private corporation destroys the entire rain-forest people are going to be severly impacted.[/quote]
Why single out corporations?



[quote]I don't see how property is anything other than something that labor plus that of the common resources that an individual has appropriated to himself for his private use under the sanction of the state or his own capacity to secure his appropriation through either the threat violence or the consent of everybody else.
[/quote]
So you believe that everyone owns everything in common?





[quote]I honestly don't think that anarcho-capitalists and left anarchists are as far apart as the two sides sometimes seem to think. it's been a long time since I really identified as a libertarian socialist but most of the objections I encountered, outside of internet echo chambers, was that anarcho-capitalists tended to focus pragmatically on weakening the state at a time when the bigger danger was corporate domination and the many of the policies of the state which they most vocally opposed, at least seemingly, were policies which were not really the most oppressive functions of the state.
[/quote]
This would take too much effort. I don't think it would be worth us arguing.