Objective Beauty

[Nihil Obstat]

I wanted to pull this off the lame board, because I have been thinking about it since I posted it yesterday. I also [url="http://irenaeusgsaintonge.blogspot.ca/2012/09/does-objective-beauty-exist.html"]threw it onto a blog post[/url]. Just because.

Anyone want to discuss it?




[color=#282828][size=4]
[color=#222222][font='Helvetica Neue'][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]I have been wondering on and off for the last several years if there does exist for humans some sort of objective standard for beauty.

I mean, ultimately speaking I definitely agree that what one person finds attractive another person may not. No argument from me there.

But I think it is really interesting to ask if we can strip the question down to the most basic, fundamental aspects, and perhaps see something universal. To me, there seems to be a rather Catholic quality about that. It is perhaps not a popular theory in contemporary circles, but we Catholics are all about the timeless. Just to be contrarian I kind of want to argue that there does exist an objective, universal standard of beauty.

My interest in this question has grown more or less proportionally to my interest in the art of the Renaissance period.

For instance, in Florence I saw this painting in person, and I was absolutely captivated by it.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Hynivb2k3r8/TU6soSsyMWI/AAAAAAAAB4o/mncUYXg9FRQ/s1600/Immaculate+Conception.jpg[/img]
Or we could look at the statue of David, the Pieta in St. Peter's, maybe Botticelli's Birth of Venus.

[img]http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/michelangelo-1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.romaviva.com/vaticano-castel-santangelo/michelangelo-pieta.jpg[/img]

[img]http://mmmnoodles.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/botticelli-birth-venus.jpg[/img]

When we look at one of those, yes, we see a certain cultural mark. We see the Greek standard of beauty in David's body. There are, as I understand it, several Renaissance tropes in Botticelli's work. And clearly the Venus figure is not anatomically plausible.

But if we separate out those cultural marks, are we left with a standard that we might consider universal? Is it simply a broadly western bias?

I am not really sure, but I do feel a strong pull towards the objective standard position. At least in some sense of the concept. I really wish I had the time right now to study in depth some form of art criticism.[/background][/size][/font][/color][/size][/color]
[list]

[/list]

[sixpence]

Just a thought. Your examples seem to revolve around the human form, and I expect that some would argue that that appreciation stems from our evolution somehow. It might be easier to stick with sunsets or something?

[franciscanheart]

Yes, there is. It's really simple: proportions and symmetry.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1348603325' post='2486625']
Just a thought. Your examples seem to revolve around the human form, and I expect that some would argue that that appreciation stems from our evolution somehow. It might be easier to stick with sunsets or something?
[/quote]
I find sunsets to be less relevant. I think of there is anything to be said here, the human form will be the truest expression of it.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1348603360' post='2486626']
Yes, there is. It's really simple: proportions and symmetry.
[/quote]
I accept that this is part of it. But I cannot accept that it is the whole story. Otherwise we could theoretically, perhaps even easily, create a "beauty formula" which is 100% mathematical. I think there is a deeper, transcendent truth to be found.

[arfink]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348606294' post='2486643']
I accept that this is part of it. But I cannot accept that it is the whole story. Otherwise we could theoretically, perhaps even easily, create a "beauty formula" which is 100% mathematical. I think there is a deeper, transcendent truth to be found.
[/quote]

Yeah, like the transcendent truth that some women are just plain gorgeous even if they look nothing like the models made up by society.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1348606440' post='2486645']


Yeah, like the transcendent truth that some women are just plain gorgeous even if they look nothing like the models made up by society.
[/quote]
Yep.

[Winchester]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1348603360' post='2486626']
Yes, there is. It's really simple: proportions and symmetry.
[/quote]
A crooked smile is proportion, or a sort of symmetry?

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348606294' post='2486643']
[s]I accept that this is part of it. But I cannot accept that it is the whole story. Otherwise we could theoretically, perhaps even easily, create a "beauty formula" which is 100% mathematical. I think there is a deeper, transcendent truth to be found.[/s]
[/quote]
Shut up and nod.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348609146' post='2486663']
A crooked smile is proportion, or a sort of symmetry?


Shut up and nod.
[/quote]

[img]http://devilinapinkdress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/noomi-rapace-prometheus-570x362.jpg[/img]

[Winchester]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348609742' post='2486668']
[img]http://devilinapinkdress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/noomi-rapace-prometheus-570x362.jpg[/img]
[/quote]Yes. Swoon.

[PhuturePriest]

You're all insane. Objective beauty can be found here

[img]http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/kate-kate-austin-678434_353_564.jpg[/img]

Or here

[img]http://www.freewebs.com/fictionfrek101/Claire_Littleton_.jpg[/img]

[Winchester]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1348614183' post='2486684']
You're all insane. Objective beauty can be found here

[img]http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/kate-kate-austin-678434_353_564.jpg[/img]

Or here

[img]http://www.freewebs.com/fictionfrek101/Claire_Littleton_.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Shut up.

[MIKolbe]

Perhaps objective beauty is proportionate to its ability to communicate the Divine?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1348620280' post='2486734']
Perhaps objective beauty is proportionate to its ability to communicate the Divine?
[/quote]
I think that has to be it, essentially. In a sense religious art and beauty are synonymous because both communicate God. That brings me then to wondering exactly how the Divine manifests itself in the human form.
From there obviously we have to point to the Incarnation. Perhaps we should conclude that objective physical beauty is a consequence of God taking on human form. No beauty without Truth, no Truth without Christ.

[4588686]

Beauty is the cruel joke of the capitalist.