No If's And But's -salvation Comes Only Through Jesus Christ (

[reyb]

A guest named ‘ What’ asked (see topic Salvation at Catholic Q&A).


I still don't get what you were saying about the topic regarding salvation. So if a muslim living in New York - who is exposed to all the Christian precepts and teachings still goes on and lives his life but lives righteously according to the image which God has implanted on every person, then he will still be saved?

That seems contradictory to what Christ says about being THE only way and that people will try to enter in another way but they are thieves.

Can someone please help me out?
---------------------
This is what he got from Catholic Scholars:

[quote]We can not presume to know God's mind. His Mercy is his greatest attribute. If this man had never rejected Christ's revelation because he didn't know it, and if he was true to the law written on his heart, and followed God's revelation as best he understood it, I think we can HOPE he might be saved.

If he is saved, though, it is through Jesus Christ's redemptive act on the cross. Salvation is for men only through Jesus Christ. If he did not come to know Jesus Christ because Christians did not share Him with this man, how can this man be faulted for not believing in him.

Woe to the Christians who encountered him and did not share the message of salvation.
From Blazer
-------------------------

I agree with the above response, and I would add that this type of thinking does nothing to negate the saving act of Jesus. It does nothing to take away from him being the only way to the Father. The mercy of Jesus is wide and he is a just judge as well. It does make room to encompass those who have never been confronted with the message of truth or those who have an invincible ignorance. Regardless, Jesus is Lord and Savior of all.

From Fr. Pontifex [/quote]
--------------------------

Since both of these answers seems to say the possibility of salvation by other means (meaning not thru Jesus Christ). Can you please explain it further? in what way it become possible since it is against Acts 4:8-12.?

[indent=1]‘Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." [/indent]

[Groo the Wanderer]

no point in answering you - you don;t listen to anything that is said anyway. so instead i shall post a poem

[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]I went to the lunchroom, and there,[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]last week on a double dare,[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]I said the meat was too gross to eat[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]and smelled like my underwear.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]I shouldn’t have been rude[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]by making such fun of the food[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]for though they were riled, [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]the lunch ladies smiled,[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]and said I had started a feud.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]
Today when I went there to eat,
they served up some monkey meat.
I ran out quick when I nearly got sick,
but then I went back to my seat.
The lunchroom ladies sighed
to see that I practically cried,
then served up a hunk of
barbecued skunk,
and that was the reason I died.
I died! I died! I died![/size][/font][/color]

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1348316521' post='2485403']
no point in answering you - you don;t listen to anything that is said anyway. so instead i shall post a poem

[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]I went to the lunchroom, and there,[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]last week on a double dare,[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]I said the meat was too gross to eat[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]and smelled like my underwear.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]I shouldn’t have been rude[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]by making such fun of the food[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]for though they were riled, [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]the lunch ladies smiled,[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]and said I had started a feud.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Times New Roman][size=1]Today when I went there to eat,
they served up some monkey meat.
I ran out quick when I nearly got sick,
but then I went back to my seat.
The lunchroom ladies sighed
to see that I practically cried,
then served up a hunk of
barbecued skunk,
and that was the reason I died.
I died! I died! I died![/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]


I do not agree with your observation. I will wait for them to response because it is written, ‘So that you may be proved right whey you speak and prevail when you judge’. But if a teacher cannot prove the truthfulness of his instruction and yet remain silent while saying what you just said. Then, I will remind them the message written in 2 Tim 4:3-4 because that is the true reason rather than ‘because I am not listening’.

[Groo the Wanderer]

corn flakes vs cheerios

a much more meaningful conversation

[Selah]

I like samosas :D

[Groo the Wanderer]

[img]http://kiradavis.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/fail_homer_simpson_corn_flakes2.jpg[/img]

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1348309631' post='2485398']
I still don't get what you were saying about the topic regarding salvation. So if a muslim living in New York - who is exposed to all the Christian precepts and teachings still goes on and lives his life but lives righteously according to the image which God has implanted on every person, then he [s]will[/s] may still be saved?[/quote]

Better.

Only Christ decides who will be saved

[Groo the Wanderer]

this thread makes me tinkle with joy

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1348309631' post='2485398']
So if a muslim living in New York - who is exposed to all the Christian precepts and teachings still goes on and lives his life but lives righteously according to the image which God has implanted on every person, then he will still be saved?
[/quote]
[quote]
That seems contradictory to what Christ says about being THE only way
[/quote]
No contradiction at all! Words are only coarse guttural sounds that only crudely and basically convey information. And are more often than not misunderstood! Salvation is written in the heart! The Muslim in your example is only a Muslim by name. in his heart he is a Christian because he is living the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Jesus said [i]"[u]I am the way the truth and the life[/u]. no one comes to the Father but by me."[/i] Think about the underlined and what it really means. The hidden meaning is you must live by truth which is by Jesus teaching. You must live your life as Jesus lived his life. [i]"I crowned my way of the cross by my death. You will only have completed your way when you have [u]crowned it with your life[/u]."[/i]

[i]Love your God and your neighbour as yourself and you shall live.[/i]

[Winchester]

Well, if we're saved by intellectual assent...

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349664506' post='2491099']
Well, if we're saved by intellectual assent...
[/quote]
Is there an antonym to that?

[Papist]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1348309631' post='2485398']
A guest named ‘ What’ asked (see topic Salvation at Catholic Q&A).


I still don't get what you were saying about the topic regarding salvation. So if a muslim living in New York - who is exposed to all the Christian precepts and teachings still goes on and lives his life but lives righteously according to the image which God has implanted on every person, then he will still be saved?

That seems contradictory to what Christ says about being THE only way and that people will try to enter in another way but they are thieves.

Can someone please help me out?
---------------------
This is what he got from Catholic Scholars:


--------------------------

Since both of these answers seems to say the possibility of salvation by other means (meaning not thru Jesus Christ). Can you please explain it further? in what way it become possible since it is against Acts 4:8-12.?

[indent=1]‘Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."[/indent]
[/quote]
It is the same as if a guy continually spends time on a Catholic forum that is filled with the Truth of Jesus Christ and His Church, then chooses to ignore, but still goes on and lives his life but lives righteously.

[Groo the Wanderer]

All salvation comes through Jesus Christ. True. Does this mean we can tie Christ's hands and place rules on Him as to whom He can save and in what manner? Nope. If He chooses to visit a pygmy in New Zealand and save him, are we gonna cry FOUL! because said pygmy has not been properly baptized, catechized, and made a solemn profession of faith? That's absurd.

[Nihil Obstat]

I always enjoy what Kallistos Ware (Eastern Orthodox) had to say on the subject:


[indent=1]Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. All the categorical strength and point of this aphorism lies in its [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)"]tautology[/url]. Outside the Church there is no salvation, because salvation is the Church" (G. Florovsky, "Sobornost: the Catholicity of the Church", in [i]The Church of God[/i], p. 53). Does it therefore follow that anyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned? Of course not; still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved. As Augustine wisely remarked: "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!" (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a "visible" and an "invisible Church", yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense, we cannot always say.[/indent]

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1349730970' post='2491368']
I always enjoy what Kallistos Ware (Eastern Orthodox) had to say on the subject:


[indent=1]Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. All the categorical strength and point of this aphorism lies in its [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric)"]tautology[/url]. Outside the Church there is no salvation, because salvation is the Church" (G. Florovsky, "Sobornost: the Catholicity of the Church", in [i]The Church of God[/i], p. 53). Does it therefore follow that anyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned? Of course not; still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved. As Augustine wisely remarked: "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!" (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a "visible" and an "invisible Church", yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense, we cannot always say.[/indent]
[/quote]

But are people who say grace before every meal, pray the rosary regularly, go to mass on Sundays to confess all manner of evil that they committed through the week without true heart felt remorse and intending to continue without conscience next week never doing one good thing still to be considered within the church? What is the church? The heart of Christ or a building where people make hollow sounds? (hopefully not sounding judgmental, I'm sure most people are not like that. just an example) The Pharisees did lip service in their temples!!
[i]"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he [b]who does[/b] the will of my Father who is in heaven.[/i]