There Cannot Be A God

[OnlySunshine]

[i]the171, I watched the Catholicism series tonight starring Fr. Barron at Church and the episode was about the Ineffable Mystery of God. The 6th section in the episode was about "The Problem of Evil" and I immediately thought of you because I read this right before I left the house. We were fortunate enough to receive outlines so I was able to write this down. I don't know if it will help you or not, but I thought I'd post it for your benefit.[/i]

[b][i]Why does evil exist?[/i][/b]
[quote]

If God the Father almighty, the Creator of the ordered and good world, cares for all his creatures, why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer to this question: the goodness of creation, the drama of sin and the patient love of God who comes to meet man by his covenants, the redemptive Incarnation of his Son, his gift of the Spirit, his gathering of the Church, the power of the sacraments and his call to a blessed life to which free creatures are invited to consent in advance, but from which, by a terrible mystery, they can also turn away in advance. [i]There is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not in part an answer to the question of evil. -- CCC 309[/i]
[/quote]

[b][i]Evil is the deprivation of what ought to be. God doesn't create evil, but why does He permit it?[/i][/b]
[list]
[*]God is infinite and He allows evil to bring about a greater good. Through suffering, we learn lessons that we may never have learned otherwise.
[/list]

[i]Speaking from experience with depression and anxiety, I often wondered why God would allow me to suffer for so long. I lost my way and I felt hopelessness encompass my soul to the point where I was suicidal. I screamed for God to help if He was there. I got no answer that I could see. When I look back, He was always there but I was the one moving away from Him. I did not trust Him and I was asking Him questions that no answer on earth could fulfill. Then, I found faith again when I was brought back to the Church. I understood that suffering stems from the First Fall of Adam and Eve and that God allowed free will to reign. He doesn't create evil -- but He allows it so that we might learn something from it and do something about it, even in our limited capacity. I know now that I learned so much about myself through suffering. I learned my strengths and weaknesses and that I needed to rely on God to a greater degree otherwise I'd lose it completely. [/i]

[i]Think about Auschwitz and other concentration camps -- the epitome of evil. Never has the world witnessed such atrocities from one man alone. Why did God allow all this? You might say, "He could have stopped it at any time!" We may never know why He allowed it, but I would never doubt that He witnessed, in horror, what His sons and daughters were experiencing. Now, those that suffered are in a better place. [/i]

[i]It's not that you are not allowed to ask questions like this at all. God allows us to question. The important thing is that you never stop having faith -- especially when you are going through a dark night of the soul. Talk to someone. Reach out and ask for help from your parent, pastor, friend, etc. [/i]

[i]You will be in my prayers.[/i]

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1348116192' post='2484565']
i have come to the conclusion that there is a God, but I am just really pissed off at him currently.

But he loves me and I am trying to love him.
[/quote]

He will be there waiting for you when you are ready.


[font=times new roman', georgia, 'trebuchet ms', arial, verdana, helvetica][size=4][url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=15&l=3#x"][3][/url] And he spoke to them this parable, saying: [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=15&l=4#x"][4][/url] What man of you that hath an hundred sheep: and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert, and go after that which was lost, until he find it? [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=15&l=5#x"][5][/url] And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing:[/size][/font]
[font=times new roman', georgia, 'trebuchet ms', arial, verdana, helvetica][size=4][url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=49&ch=15&l=6#x"][6][/url] And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?[/size][/font]

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

I've told you all I could. Just keep going, you can do this, Mama. He loves you so much.

You always told me in my suffering that Jesus must love me so much. He is raising you up to His level on the cross.

You know what, I've been mad at God for the past 5 months and your advice kept me going. How many times I have thought, is it better for me to die than to be on this wretched place. Who told me no? You.

Please hear out everything I've told you today. Please hand on for me. For all of us.

We love you. God loves you.

[dUSt]

If we never experience bad, we could not comprehend good.
We are exposed to pain and suffering so we will truly know how great heaven is.

Think about the person who is born in a place that is 76 degrees year round, beautiful weather every day. They never leave that place, and therefore believe their weather is normal. They are so confused when they have friends visit from out of town and go on and on about how beautiful the weather is, and how lucky they are to be there. That person who has never experienced bad weather does not appreciate what they have. They don't see the good in it. They can't comprehend the beauty of what they live every day. It is only those people who live in bad weather, in freezing temperatures, that can truly understand and appreciate that goodness and beauty.

Maybe the people who experience the most pain and suffering in life will be able to see and appreciate the beauty of heaven even more than those who haven't?

Anyway, that's my theory.

[AnneLine]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1348116192' post='2484565']
i have come to the conclusion that there is a God, but I am just really pissed off at him currently.

But he loves me and I am trying to love him.
[/quote]

Pissed off is good. It is a good, strong, legitimate form of communication. He's BIG - he can take it.

Last part is heart of the matter.

Feelings are one thing; real love isn't a feeling. It is a doing. If you are trying, you are doing. Hang in there.... we're praying for you... PM if I can help....

[4588686]

[color=#ff0000][size=8]Нет богов! [/size][/color]



[color=#ff0000][size=8]нет хозяев![/size][/color]

[Pax_et bonum]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1348114974' post='2484558']
i cant pray because i am just too angry with god and i am pretty sure i will blaspheme if i do.
[/quote]
It's nothing He hasn't heard before,* and He already knows everything so it's not like you're hiding anything from Him. I can't see any benefit to not praying because you're only closing yourself off from Him which isn't going to solve anything. Yell at Him if you need to, but then listen. Be honest with God and yourself.

My best friend was in a similar situation. She was sexually abused by her brother, too many family members and friends had committed/attempted suicide including her best friend from grade school, sick and the doctors don't know what's wrong ... you get the picture. She was mad at God and didn't want to pray/didn't think she could be mad at God in prayer. I told her what I told you, she received help from other people too, and she got through it. This past spring, she was raped. I am so proud of her because she could have become angry again, but she turned to Him for comfort and healing instead. Her faith is stronger than ever. Our God can take you being thrown down a well and sold into slavery and make you a prince of Egypt.

* "Smite me, o mighty Smiter!"

[Papist]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1348116192' post='2484565']
i have come to the conclusion that there is a God, but I am just really pissed off at him currently.

But he loves me and I am trying to love him.
[/quote]
Good. I am sure God expects us to get angry at times, even at Him. He does not expect us to experience suffering and dance around in joy thanking Him for it. I will be praying for you and your family. May I suggest you just sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament. If you do not have Adoration near you, then just sit in front of the Tabernacle. Just being in the His presence can bring peace. God bless you.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1348114974' post='2484558']
i cant pray because i am just too angry with god
[/quote]

I know this feeling well. Perhaps you could write a letter as if you were writing to Him. Fill it with all the feelings you have, regardless of whatever language you use to communicate your feelings. When you are done, fold it up and keep it on your person for a day. The next day, read it, and have a pen handy. Edit your letter. Perhaps (and most likely) not only might you cross out the 'colorful metaphors'; but you might be able to expand/clarify what you *really* want to say.

Wash.Rinse.Repeat...until you have what you want to say in the best way that you can say it.

Read it to Him.

Alot of times, 171, I have confusion and anger that I have to work out before I can even get to *what* my issue *really* is. I am not good like the saints who can *just accept it humbly* or quickly and efficiently use it to get closer to Him. What I have to remember is that I am part of a relationship that I really can't fully comprehend this side of eternity. This is equally true for the 'love and peaceful feelings' along with the 'confused and angry' feelings.

See, but I LIKE the 'love and peaceful feelings' part of the relationship, so me (being lazy) am less likely to question it, or try to figure out the how's and why's. This is why, when poo happens, I'm all like "wait..wha..", or I just can't even begin to start to initialize some small semblence comprehension...and then more confusion and anger comes...


[quote name='the171' timestamp='1348114974' post='2484558']

i hope that god will love me even though i am mad at him.

[/quote]

Maybe ask your parents if THEY would love you even though you might be mad at them. Reflect on their response. Ask them why. Be prepared for a possible simple response.

[CatherineM]

I have spent a lot of time in my life mad at God. The opposite of love isn't hate, it is indifference. We usually get maddest at those we love the most.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

MIKolbe, can I just say how amesome you are?

171, I really hope that you're feeling better today. I know the last two years have been really hard for you, but last night I was thinking about all of the good things that have happened in your life since I met you. You really are blessed. I'm going to name just a fee of the ways.

Your brother was married at a beautiful wedding this past spring.
You are going to be Confirmed in the EFM.
Mission week.
Steubie.
ECHO.
Brad and all those gentlemen you got to meet.
Homecoming is next week.
J

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1348149258' post='2484640']
MIKolbe, can I just say how amesome you are?

[/quote]

Like voting, I suggest you saying this early and often.

[LinaSt.Cecilia2772]

What MIKolbe said about writing a letter to God really works. I do it all the time. I have a specific journal that I keep in a special place in my room that I write letters to God in. I write whatever is on my mind, what's bothering me, what I want to figure or not figure out. Pretty much anything. It doesn't have to make sense on paper, but God understands what you're saying since He knows everything.

And know that NOTHING can change how much God loves you. It's truly hard to believe sometimes, but it is eternal.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1348114974' post='2484558']
i dont believe in god right now, but i have to have faith that he is there. as much as i am angry with him, he should be so much more angry with me.
[/quote]

the171 ... there's an image that I have of myself before God when I get angry at him.

It is the image of the precocious toddler throwing herself on the floor, having a temper tantrum, and having the Father looking on.

Been there one tooooooo many times to keep track. I've said everything under the sun to Him. Bad things. Guess what? He listened, and when I was ready to allow myself to be held, He was there to hold me and remind me that things will be ok.

He shares our pain, He shares our anger at the bad that we see in the world, He shares the grief/hurt when we are betrayed. And He has loved us and continues to love us to death.

Just be real with Him ... and as I said last night, get to adoration. Even if all you want to do is say every curse word in the book. Even if you just stare Him down in anger. He can take it, and He will help you through it.

Shoot ... my adoration sessions for the majority of the last 3 months have consisted of "Ok. I'm here. Bah humbug." Yet -- every so often, something deep happens. I find out something about myself. I am consoled. I find peace sometimes. What matters is being there -- because something mysterious happens when you are in the presence of the Beloved. You may not perceive it, but He is working in you.

Blessings -- and as I said you'll be in my prayers.

[MissyP89]

171, I think just about everybody here has been where you are.

Life is hard. Faith is harder. I have spent many, many nights over the past 7 years in a little ball on the floor crying out to God, and when I couldn't do that, just crying. Everybody told me life with God brought peace and joy ... it didn't. Things have actually gotten tougher as a result of my faith in Him.

But look at the Bible. He told us we'd have trouble here. This isn't home.

I have so many moments where I doubt Him. Every time I make another change or sacrifice for His sake I wonder if it's going to be worth it in the end. My grandmother has been terminally ill for going on 10 years now, and I've watched her suffer every day since then ... sweetest woman you ever wanted to meet. She doesn't deserve this pain.

I used to blame God. But I realized that sometimes, life just [i]happens, [/i]you know? People get sick. People hurt and betray us. We give away parts of our heart that we can never get back. Etc.

But no matter what happens, God is still with us. He still hears. Look at the Israelites and Moses stuck in the desert for 40 years. Yes, they suffered terribly. But eventually they DID get out. It got better. The whole book is full of suffering and pain ... and healing. Don't miss that.

There's so much ebb and flow to faith ... there are good times and there are awful times. And it really, truly is OK to be having an awful time. It doesn't make you bad, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything's wrong.

Just be gentle with yourself. Go to Mass on Sundays. If you can pray, great, but if you can't, it's OK. Don't force it. Do what you can. We'll take care of the rest.

xo

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjIagi7QKHQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjIagi7QKHQ[/url]