A Faded Piece Of Papyrus Refers To Jesus's Wife - Nyt Article

[CatherineM]

Wonder if James Cameron is involved this time?

[Nihil Obstat]

This is old news. Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln beat them to it by, like, 30 years.

[TheresaThoma]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1348013755' post='2483956']
well..considering Jesus/Joshua/Yeshua was quite a common name...not really a big deal.

[/quote]
Very good point!

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1348023714' post='2484015']
What has marriage got to do with not being celibate ? There have been lay saints that where chaste throught there married life.

:edit: shame upon the world thinking marriage is only about sex.
[/quote]

Actually, I learned in sacraments class that the sex is the difference between a man and woman living as husband/wife vs. brother/sister.

[Nola Seminarian]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1348023714' post='2484015']
What has marriage got to do with not being celibate ? There have been lay saints that where chaste throught there married life.

:edit: shame upon the world thinking marriage is only about sex.
[/quote]

Not to mention the Blessed Virgin and St Joseph

[Amppax]

I talked about this today with a professor. Something I'd like to throw in here, this professor is really well respected, she isn't some crackpot. She's also in a statement (which I can't find) basically said the same thing that Mortify said. My professor was saying that it reflects more on the fact that 4th and 5th century Christians were having debates about marriage and celibacy at the time.

[Socrates]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1348081602' post='2484253']
Wonder if James Cameron is involved this time?
[/quote]
He's no doubt working on the screenplay as we speak.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1348093210' post='2484352']
Actually, I learned in sacraments class that the sex is the difference between a man and woman living as husband/wife vs. brother/sister.
[/quote]

Soooo.... Are you suggesting the BVM and St. Joseph were not husband and wife but instead brother and sister?

[Socrates]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1348032088' post='2484054']
If we assume the fragment is not a forgery, the next question is what historical authority it bears. Being that it is purported to be a 4th century fragment, what knowledge does it reveal to us about the historical Jesus? I'm fascinated that people are more interested in that which has little to no historical relevence to Christ, and pass over that which really is significant, the New Testament, which is our *earliest* collection of writings on the life and teachings of our Lord.
[/quote]
Good point. The canonical gospels (which now most scholars have been forced to accept are from the first century) predate by centuries the gnostic "gospels" about Christ's marriage to Mary Magdalene and such (as do the Pauline Epistles). The gnostic "gospels" also contain a lot more weird and "fantastical" stuff than the canonical gospels.
Yet the secular media regularly treats the gnostic texts are if they reveal an earlier and "purer" Christianity - back before the Church was hijacked by all those awful repressive male sexist homophobic religious types.

[4588686]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1348079798' post='2484238']
Shush, you. [/QUOTE]

No. As we have already established, I'm edgy and provocative.


[QUOTE]You think his original apostles would have mentioned it to Paul during the time he spent in Jerusalem.
[/quote]

Since the original Apostles didn't write anything down it's hard to say what they would have said on the matter.

[4588686]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1348096776' post='2484387'] back before the Church was hijacked by all those awful repressive male sexist homophobic religious types.
[/quote]

Not all religious people are homophobic. My grandfather is very religious. He even volunteered to go to Vietnam as a Chaplin with a medical evacuation unit. And yet he manages to go weeks at a time without thinking about sodomy and who might be sodomizing whom. The fact that so many on the religious-right are so fixated on male sodomy probably suggests more about their personal inner-turmoil than religious people in general.


8:16 on pertains to be relevant here

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQYVm_qZ8A&feature=relmfu"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQYVm_qZ8A&feature=relmfu[/url]

[Norseman82]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1348095338' post='2484376']
Soooo.... Are you suggesting the BVM and St. Joseph were not husband and wife but instead brother and sister?
[/quote]

It was a general reply to Tab's general statement.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Norseman82

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1348098531' post='2484402']
Since the original Apostles didn't write anything down it's hard to say what they would have said on the matter.
[/quote]

I'm sure that it was fresh in the memory of the apostles, and if Jesus had been married, would He not have entrusted her into somebody's care? After all, He entrusted His mother into St. John's care. Would not have the apostles introduced St. Paul to her?

And why would St. Paul write that it is better to remain unmarried if Jesus Himself was married?

[4588686]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1348099415' post='2484414']
I'm sure that it was fresh in the memory of the apostles, and if Jesus had been married, would He not have entrusted her into somebody's care? After all, He entrusted His mother into St. John's care. Would not have the apostles introduced St. Paul to her?[/QUOTE]

I don't know. The earliest Gospels were written decades later. Who know what Jesus said and did. Is this finding evidence that Jesus was married? No, except in the most marginal sense. Was Jesus married? I don't know and I don't really care.

[QUOTE]And why would St. Paul write that it is better to remain unmarried if Jesus Himself was married?
[/quote]

Because he believed that it was better to remain unmarried?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1348100316' post='2484433']
I don't know. The earliest Gospels were written decades later. Who know what Jesus said and did.
[/quote]

Irenaeus, in the late second century:

[indent=1]When I was still a boy I saw you in Asia Minor with Polycarp, doing splendidly in the royal court and striving to gain his approbation. I remember the events of those days better than the ones of recent years. What a boy learns grows with the mind and becomes a part of him, so that I am able to describe the very place in which the blessed Polycarp sat as he discoursed, his goings and his comings, the manner of his life, his physical appearance, as well as the discourses he delivered to the people, and how he spoke of his familiar conversation with John and with the rest of those who had seen the Lord, and how he would recall their words to mind. All that he had heard from them concerning the Lord or about His miracles and about His teaching, having received it from eyewitnesses of the Word of Life, Polycarp related in harmony with the Scriptures. [/indent]


Honestly, I think that Patristic Tradition is a fairly compelling stance.